Third Octave Chart for Concert Flute?

[MWBailey]

Is there a 'reliable' or 'comprehensive' 3rd-octave fingering chart for concert ('Irish') flutes? I've been able to get a few notes of the third octave out of my D Sweetheart, but the specific fingerings would come in handy for songs in A or G, for example.

[Rob Sharer]

Here's a chart from Terry McGee's site:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/SixKeyFluteV4.pdf


Check out the other charts he has posted if this one doesn't suit your flute.


Rob

[MWBailey]

Here's a chart from Terry McGee's site:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/SixKeyFluteV4.pdf


Check out the other charts he has posted if this one doesn't suit your flute.


Rob

Thanks! I'll peruse the site. Sorry, should have said mine's keyless, but I can work backwards along the link. Thanks again.

[benhall.1]

As an aside, I don't know whether I'm "right" (if that's even the correct word) but when I see the term "concert flute" I always assume it means, in trad terms, an 8-key, simple system flute. (If I saw the term outstide of a trad context I'd assume it meant a Boehm system, fully keyed flute.)

[talasiga]

Ben, I think you are well aware that usage is contextual.

I have a receipt for the Seery keyless flute I bought from J McNeill, "The Traditional Music Specialists", 140 Capel Street, Dublin in 1993 wherein the item is described as

Wicklow Instrument "D" Concert Flute

[benhall.1]

Usage is always contextual. Just observing what is conjured up for me by the term "concert flute". I suspect (with no evidence, mind) that the meaning I'm getting from the term is an older meaning, and that the term has been taken up to include other types of flute in the more recent past. I dimly recall that keyless flutes are, at least for Irish trad purposes, a more recent development in any case. I think that's right. I have a feeling that their use for Irish trad in modern times started in the States. Not that that matters ...

[Denny]

Rick Wilson

Flutes from the second half of the 18th century and early 19th century (whether they were equipped with more than one key or not) often had slightly narrower bores than baroque flutes.

[jemtheflute]

3rd 8ve on keyless is a bit problematic due to lack of essential venting by at least an Eb key. However, much is still possible. I'm not just now in a position to search and link it, but somewhere there's an old thread about this issue re: a Seery keyless. F natural is the biggest problem, though a cross-fingering involving one half-hole can be a solution of sorts there. I kept a record of the fingerings I worked not on the Seery I had at the time - will add them here when I get on the 'puter at home. Meantime, a Baroque fingering chart will provide a starting place (cf Rick Wilson's website), albeit the lack of the essential Eb key means not everything will be applicable or even work at all, and some things may work, but less well for tone or intonation than with the key.

@Ben: 'concert flute' was originally (and to some extent still is) in all contexts/usages a distinction from 'band flute', not about system but about size/pitch and use. Thus any full size D (C) flute is not a band flute, it is a concert flute; but extension of the original practical, descriptive sense may lead to people now using it to mean Bohm flute as the orchestral standard and excluding 'folk' instruments like the modern keyless 'Irish' flute... But the Irish tend to conserve the 'not a band flute' sense/usage.

[Steve Bliven]

Is this the one you mean?

viewtopic.php?p=681387

Best wishes.

Steve

[oakuss]

As an aside, I don't know whether I'm "right" (if that's even the correct word) but when I see the term "concert flute" I always assume it means, in trad terms, an 8-key, simple system flute. (If I saw the term outstide of a trad context I'd assume it meant a Boehm system, fully keyed flute.)

That's the way I understood it, but I saw a Comhaltas vid of a girl playing on a wood Boehm flute, and they announced it as a concert flute.

Don't know the Irish language, but is the word for Flute the same as the word for Whistle, and they call the flute "Concert Flute" to distinguish between the two?

[jemtheflute]

Is this the one you mean?

viewtopic.php?p=681387

Best wishes.

Steve

Aye, that be the one. Thanks, Steve.

[MTGuru]

Don't know the Irish language, but is the word for Flute the same as the word for Whistle, and they call the flute "Concert Flute" to distinguish between the two?

Besides modern Fliut, you see Feadóg (whistle) and Feadóg Mhór (big feadóg = flute). And Feadán is any kind of pipe or tube.

http://comhaltas.ie/glossary

No, I don't think you can match up the terminology. The origins of concert flute are in distinguishing it from "flute" as a completely generic term for any air-reed-driven aerophone. It's a distinction based on use, not morphology - though associated at different historical times with particular morphologies. And the generic usage persists in many languages today.

[oakuss]

Besides modern Fliut, you see Feadóg (whistle) and Feadóg Mhór (big feadóg = flute). And Feadán is any kind of pipe or tube.

http://comhaltas.ie/glossary

No, I don't think you can match up the terminology. The origins of concert flute are in distinguishing it from "flute" as a completely generic term for any air-reed-driven aerophone. It's a distinction based on use, not morphology - though associated at different historical times with particular morphologies. And the generic usage persists in many languages today.

You're saying the term "Concert Flute" was associated with particular morphologies at different historical times? Can you give some examples? I'm curious to see if the "concert" flute was whatever was used in the pro orchestras at a given time.

[jemtheflute]

I'm curious to see if the "concert" flute was whatever was used in the pro orchestras at a given time.

To some extent that is so, or at least it was used to describe a popular perception, not necessarily by professional or even amateur musicians. See the part of my last-but-one post in this thread addressed @ Ben, a summary I'll stick with and which MTGuru somewhat morphed into his last. FWIW, I don't think the term has a very long history - probably no earlier than mid C19th, though I have no authority to quote or research to back that suspicion with.

It is perhaps amusing, not to say confusing, to note that a modern US usage, at least in the music trade, is to refer to what we in GB would call "orchestral instruments" or "classical instruments" as "band instruments" - e.g. plenty of adds on eBay US for "band instruments" including, Bohm flutes, clarinets, saxes...... Given the Guru's CV (would that be "resumé" in Merkin?), perhaps he could elucidate that?

[Mr.Gumby]

I have met many older people in Ireland who invariably called the flute 'the concert flute'. Often to distinguish it from the other 'flute' we now call 'whistle'.