What is the definition of a slide?

[Mockingbird]

Does it have anything to do with a slip jig? How would you describe the rhythm?

(Thanks for helping a newbie.)

[Mockingbird]

Hm, well, I found this, but I'm still confused, as rhythm is the thing I'm worst at reading on musical notation.

http://www.irishtune.info/rhythm/

[fearfaoin]

As far as I've been able to determine, a
slide is kind of like a jig, but you can feel
it "hang" more on the notes that fall right
on the beats, especially the 1st beat of
each measure. That's why slides tend to
have a lot of quarter note-eighth note
pairs where jigs have more instances of
3 eighth notes in a row.

EDIT:
Though, now that I look at them, a lot of
single jigs have plenty of quarter note-
eighth note pairs, so maybe that's not
enough to identify a slide...

[NicoMoreno]

as rhythm is the thing I'm worst at reading on musical notation.

Yep, you've nailed it there. Sheet music simply can not capture accurately the rhythm and/or swing of these dance tunes properly, without being ridiculously confusing. (slides, polkas in particular, but really, all irish music)

The answer to this is not words (which really won't help you learn it) but listening. Listen, listen, listen. And then reread some explanations. Then listen, listen, listen. Then maybe try rereading some more. At this point, many explanations will make sense, and many won't. But you won't really understand it without listening.

That said, the descriptions of both slides and single jigs on that website are really good descriptions. At least to me, now, after a few solid years of really listening to really good Kerry or Sliabh Luachra players, and after this past year spent really trying to understand flings, with the help of a dancer in Wales (ceolachan over on thesession.org). Slide and polka phrasing, pulse, and swing is key to nailing it, and these can't be accurately explained in writing or via sheet music.

In answer to your other question, no it does not share much, or anything, with a slip jig. Single jigs and slides are related (that's a point where I don't really agree with from the irishtune.info site) and you can often use double and single jigs as slides (and vice versa).

But seriously, spend a good few years listening to Denis Murphy, Julia Clifford, Padraig O'Keefe, Paddy Cronin, Johnny O'Leary, Jackie Daly, Seamus Creagh, Matt Cranitch, Brendan Begley and Caoimhin O'Raghallaigh. (There are others, but it's those, in about that order chronologically / volumically, except COR, that I listened to). After a few years you'll understand, hopefully. And hopefully you'll realize how hard (and satisfying!) it is to play polkas right. (At least, "Kerry right")

[MTGuru]

Yes, it's tricky, and harder to explain than to demonstrate. On paper, a slide is a single jig and a single jig is a slide. They both have the dotted feel - quarter plus eighth / crotchet plus quaver. Slides are often written in 12/8 and single jigs in 6/8 by the persnickity, but that's just a hint. The one can be played as the other, and the interpretation can vary regionally.

[ Slip jigs are in 9/8, and a different beast entirely. ]

The key difference is in the balance between the underlying rhythms. That is, in a jig (double or single), the triple rhythm is primary and the double rhythm (2 groups of 3) is secondary. A slide is reversed: the double rhythm (2 or 4 groups of 3) is primary, and the triple rhythm is secondary.

Try this: Take a single jig and play it quite slowly. You should be able to count it in 6, 1-2-3 4-5-6. Now try the same with a slide. It should feel awkward to count it in anything but 2 or 4: 1-uh 2-uh 3-uh 4-uh.

In some ways, slides are closer to hornpipes in rhythm than they are to jigs. They're both 4/4 tunes with underlying triplets. But hornpipes emphasize every other downbeat in 4-note phrases (ONE-uh 2-uh THREE-uh 4-uh), where slides put more emphasis on each downbeat (ONE-uh TWO-uh THREE-uh FOUR-uh). And slides have a faster feel.

Don't know if that helps ...

Added: I crossed posts with Nico, but I think we're in agreement.

[NicoMoreno]

Yes, except I am becoming convinced the things you say should be tricky are only tricky when you have listened a lot and trained your ear to understand the differences. Reading sheet music and not knowing anything about them, it'd be perfectly easy to count slides in 6

Also, I am definitely now with Alan Ng (irishtunes.info) on keeping double and single jigs more separate. One of my current favourite sets of tunes is a nice pair of "single jigs or single reels, I can never tell which" - Ronan Browne (in other words, they're flings! but usually played as single jigs). Quite a few single jigs are flings in reality (or once were) and they share quite a bit of similarities, often. But of course, the boundaries from slide to single jig to fling to hornpipe to reel to polka and back again (and all in between too) are not as rigid as I (and many) would like, I think!

[Mockingbird]

The answer to this is not words (which really won't help you learn it) but listening.

Dang. I was kinda hoping for something as easy as "deedley-deedley," or "alligator, alligator."

The key difference is in the balance between the underlying rhythms. That is, in a jig (double or single), the triple rhythm is primary and the double rhythm (2 groups of 3) is secondary. A slide is reversed: the double rhythm (2 or 4 groups of 3) is primary, and the triple rhythm is secondary.

Try this: Take a single jig and play it quite slowly. You should be able to count it in 6, 1-2-3 4-5-6. Now try the same with a slide. It should feel awkward to count it in anything but 2 or 4: 1-uh 2-uh 3-uh 4-uh.

In some ways, slides are closer to hornpipes in rhythm than they are to jigs. They're both 4/4 tunes with underlying triplets. But hornpipes emphasize every other downbeat in 4-note phrases (ONE-uh 2-uh THREE-uh 4-uh), where slides put more emphasis on each downbeat (ONE-uh TWO-uh THREE-uh FOUR-uh). And slides have a faster feel.

That helps a lot! I can always count on y'all for excellent detail!

[AlBrown]

Let me start with the single jig, and go from there:
Like the double jig (rashers and sausages), a single jig is in 6/8 time, played at the pace of a double jig, but with a simpler rhythm. The words 'humpty dumpty' give you an idea of the rhythm of a single jig. Like MTGuru says, a quarter note followed by an eighth note, or crochet followed by quaver, if you use the terms from the auld country.
On the other hand, a slide is played in 12/8 time, played quicker than a double jig, with the 'humpty dumpty' feel of a single jig, but with longer phrases.
In my mind, a slide is to a jig as a polka is to a reel--a tune that is stripped down to its basics in the interest of speed. Slides and polkas are what set dancers like best, and as far as some of them are concerned, the faster the better.
And I agree, it is far easier to hear it than it is to explain it!

[Mockingbird]

Downloaded track #7 here, and I think I'm finally clueing in regarding the "1-uh 2-uh 3-uh 4-uh," spoken with a kind of lilt (like the Swedish Chef?), and every downbeat getting the oomph. Now I want a hornpipe, to compare...

[NicoMoreno]

Kevin Burke does ok with Sliabh Luachra music, but he doesn't really have the pulse. Listen to the box on that track for a better sense of it. And get some Denis Murphy.

I don't think those word things are actually helpful at all. And I don't agree with Al about his definitions either. Jigs, slides, single jigs, can all be written in 6/8, so that's not really that helpful. And single jigs usually have four beat phrases, same as slides. And I definitely don't agree about slides and polkas being stripped down for speed! That's only by poor players.

There's not a ton of difference between slides and single jigs, really, it's more about how you play them. Lots of much better authorities than you'll find on this board (or necessarily amongst the living!) have talked about how slides are just the Kerry way of playing single jigs. Johnny O'Leary would play double jigs for slides, and slides for double jigs (if they worked). There's a great definition in the front section of the Johnny O'Leary book where the editor talks about the differences (and defining characteristics) of double jigs and slides, and one of his final thoughts was that of course many tunes defy these characteristics, or are just used for dancing different things than you'd think.

So anyway.

[whistle1000]

I agree with the Guru. I mentioned it in an earlier post on the same topic. A slide is a jig that plays like a hornpipe. I know th sounds weird but if you have 4 sets of 3 it should have a hornpipe rhythm. ONE TWO THREE - 123- ONE TWO THREE- 123 etc. I find it hard to explain but I hope this helps! Try wording the hornpipe like the above instead of ONE 2 THREE 4 ONE 2 THREE 4 etc. Try it it's kinda fun!

[AlBrown]

nico, I am not advocating that players strip down polkas when they play them. What I am saying is, when you look at the dots, there tend to be less notes and the notes tend to be of longer duration when you put polka music side by side with reel music, and the same with slides as opposed to jigs. They are composed to move faster. And if you have seen slides written in 6/8 instead of the 12/8 I have seen, it wouldn't surprise me. Conventions for writing these tunes are not always hard and fast.
This is an area where the playing makes the difference, and the dots can't capture the subtleties that differentiate the types of tunes. As you say nico, a musician can turn a single jig into a slide, and vice versa (or a polka into a march, hornpipe into barn dance, etc, etc, by how they play it).

[oakuss]

A slide is like "Pop goes the Weasel". No kidding, on one of my daughter's Irish Dance accompaniment CDs, one of the tunes the fiddler (Fiona Coll, I believe) does for slide or single jig is "Pop Goes the Weasel".

[StevieJ]

A slide is a jig that plays like a hornpipe.

Jackie Daly makes a point of telling students not to play slides like hornpipes. In a slide, IIRC, he says you would tap your foot on every downbeat - four even beats in a bar - whereas in a hornpipe you'd tap every second beat.

[NicoMoreno]

That would help in part to explain the weird almost in-between quality of many of Johnny O'Leary's polkas and / or hornpipes (depending on how you look at it).