Dissed Bodhran players?

[In The Woods]

In most of the ITM I've listened to so far, there's a bodhran player adding to the fun. However, (comma, he said,) on the boards I've noticed that they seem to be less than welcome at sessions. Is my perception accurate, or am I reading more into it than is there? When I played in pipe bands, the drummers were in for a share of the ribbing, but we would have dead in the water without them. So what's up, Forumites? Are bodhran players welcome, or are they the lepers of ITM?

With best wishes to all.

Steve Mack

PS: I can understand not wanting to have a terrible player at a session, but how about a good one?

[Denny]

It is common in many genres of music to slag whatever passes for a percussionist.
It is the nature of the instrument.
It is easy to get sound.
(kinda like light and moths)

[Jumper]

I can understand not wanting to have a terrible player at a session, but how about a good one?

What is the ratio of terrible bodhran players to good ones?

[Nanohedron]

...but we would have dead in the water without them.

I take it you're a bodhrán player, then?

If the music is played well enough, the well-played bodhrán is merely a nice addendum, no more. I've played solo flute at dances (unplugged for sizeable groups, by the way) and for feis competitions, and no one's ever had a problem following the rhythm. I make a point of that. The rhythm and danceability is inherent in the tunes themselves, and it's the job of the melody player to bring it out. My opinion, but I'm not likely to change it by now.

Most of the dissing comes about from those bodhrán players that have either poor rhythm or play in elaborate fashions that don't really back up the music. They are not the minority.

[straycat82]

The problem with the Bodhran is that so many people say "Gee, I can't really play any musical instruments so I'll play the bodhran". The bodhran is an instrument and can make beautiful music when played properly. The problem comes when people think that they can just pick one up and whack it in time (or out of time for some) with the music. My personal feelings on the matter are:
If you don't know the tune you wouldn't try to play it on the flute at a session. In the same manner, if you don't know the tune, don't try and play it on the bodhran. You need to learn the music just as you would if you were a whistle player or a fiddle player. Get to know the basic structure of Irish music and play it properly.
Obviously the bodhran (for an experienced and knowlegable player anyways) would be easier to pick up tunes for because if nothing else you can play the basic rhythm based on the kind of tune that is playing. For example, you can do a very basic reel rhythm for several songs but that would be boring. An experienced player would know the tune, know when to accent certain notes to add a proper emphasis to the rhythm and follow the structure and phrasing of the tune. The bodhran is really the only bass instrument native to Irish music and it should be played as such. In the B part of the tune when the notes are usually a little higher up the staff, the bodhran player should look for the same tonal qualities to go with the music. In the A part when the tune is generally lower on the staff, the player would follow with deeper tones as well. Make sense?
I'm sure there are many opinions about bodhran player and this is mine... hope it adds some insight to your question.

[SteveShaw]

The above two posts have it exactly right. No Irish music ever needs a bodhran, and the aspiring participant had better bear that in mind. Of course, you could say the same about a box, a flute or a harmonica (heaven forfend), but at least on those you have to play the notes of the tune. We had a bodhran player in our session last night whose idea of playing seemed to be to hit the skin (very loudly) once for every note of every tune. And she was constantly urging the music to go faster (a typical manifestation of the flawed beginner on many instruments). You can sort of ignore the banging bit but you don't really want to be using all your might to keep the tempo constant. It's a sad fact that there are probably two good bodhran players on the planet, and neither of them ever comes anywhere near Cornwall.

[In The Woods]

No, I'm not a bodhran player. I'm a piper (Highland and smallpipes), and I'm learning whistle first and working on flute. I was just curious about the bodhran players, and I agree that it's not acceptable merely to bang along in one's own little world. That said, I attend a very forgiving session, where you just have to be competent to have fun, and we have some very talented youngsters who will make a tremendous impression one day in ITM if they keep playing and developing.

With best regards to all.

Steve Mack

PS

We also have the occasiona bodhran player who plays along very softly.

[Nanohedron]

We also have the occasiona bodhran player who plays along very softly.

Why, so do we! And we love them to BITS. You can still hear them, and their rhythms are solid, too. Sweet stuff.

We see them too seldom.

[cowtime]

Anyone who thinks drumming is "easy" and anyone can do it doesn't know much about drumming.

Unfortunately, most folks think this and too many think this and therefore believe that since they can't play anything else they can drum.

IMHO, drumming is a wonderful foundation accompaniment to great music.
Yes, the music sounds good without it, but so much fuller with it included.

When I played in pipe bands, the drummers were in for a share of the ribbing, but we would have dead in the water without them.

So true, so true..... (this coming from a former piper who plays drums in a pipe band)

[Dafydd Eto]

The above two posts have it exactly right. No Irish music ever needs a bodhran, and the aspiring participant had better bear that in mind. Of course, you could say the same about a box, a flute or a harmonica (heaven forfend), but at least on those you have to play the notes of the tune. We had a bodhran player in our session last night whose idea of playing seemed to be to hit the skin (very loudly) once for every note of every tune. And she was constantly urging the music to go faster (a typical manifestation of the flawed beginner on many instruments). You can sort of ignore the banging bit but you don't really want to be using all your might to keep the tempo constant. It's a sad fact that there are probably two good bodhran players on the planet, and neither of them ever comes anywhere near Cornwall.

Even worse is the kind who've been playing it for a while so think they know what they're doing.

As an occasional bodhran player myself, I put up with the abuse by reminding myself that the same criticisms can also be levelled at many guitar players. The fact is there are decent bodhran players about, who can underpin a tune and add strength, depth and subtlety by varying the style with restraint, knowledge, variation, imagination, skill and a good ear. Above all, they won't play unless they're adding something to the sound. They are in the minority, but there's more than 2 of them!

[AaronMalcomb]

When I played in pipe bands, the drummers were in for a share of the ribbing, but we would have dead in the water without them.

While the drum corps is necessary for a competing pipe band, drumming is not required for Highland bagpipe music or other forms of Scottish music. A piper can compete in solo but a drummer needs a piper to accompany.

The melody is where the music is at. Rhythmic accompaniment is optional. As much is true in ITM.

[Sliabh Luachra]

In most of the ITM I've listened to so far, there's a bodhran player adding to the fun. However, (comma, he said,) on the boards I've noticed that they seem to be less than welcome at sessions. Is my perception accurate, or am I reading more into it than is there? When I played in pipe bands, the drummers were in for a share of the ribbing, but we would have dead in the water without them. So what's up, Forumites? Are bodhran players welcome, or are they the lepers of ITM?

With best wishes to all.

Steve Mack

PS: I can understand not wanting to have a terrible player at a session, but how about a good one?

It's just so easy. The slagging. . . not the playing (contrary to popular belief).

Mark

ps Steve, Jane and I hope to make it back to Shebeen this Sunday. Summer has been too crazy and we've been away much too much, as far as I'm concerned (though we can never travel enough for Jane).

[Jim McGuire]

Irish/Scottish music is all melody - Scots piping has the added element of martial/military tones, needed for troops and pageantry.

[djm]

Personally, I love a deep low whump from a bodhrán, but only from ONE. I don't care how talented they are. If twenty bodhráns show up in one room, and they all think they are going to play on every tune, there are going to be words .... unpleasant words ....

djm

[ketida]

Ditto, Djm.