Instrument fashion in Irish music

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stringbed
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

Post by stringbed »

Mr.Gumby wrote: The Rolling wave had a look at the role of the piano in Irish music. For want of a better place I stick the link here:
Thanks!

These episodes don’t appear at all on the Rolling Wave podcast, which I follow regularly. Guess it’s time to change venues.

Aoife Nic Cormaic ever so informatively traces the path taken by the piano from its ubiquitous presence as an accompanying instrument in early US recording studios, to its emergence as a solo instrument in arranged ensemble performance in Ireland. She then focuses on specific performers but doesn’t go into the now similarly ubiquitous appearance of portable electronic keyboards in all sorts of group contexts.

I’m guessing that Tríona Ní Dhomhnaill and her clavinet played a seminal role in that process but haven’t been able to find anything directly about it. Can Mr. Gumby or anyone else provide a pointer or two?

Also, in light of the North American upbeat to this discussion, I’m wondering if the Cape Breton perspective on piano accompaniment may somehow weigh into it, as explained at https://youtu.be/zI_D0d1b0xs.
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

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I’m guessing that Tríona Ní Dhomhnaill and her clavinet played a seminal role in that process but haven’t been able to find anything directly about it. Can Mr. Gumby or anyone else provide a pointer or two?
I very much doubt the clavinet played a part there. The older musicians often liked a but of 'help' from a backer when playing in a more 'performance' type of setting and the piano would have been the instrument of choice from the connection with the ceiliband sound.

Today's availability and portability of keyboards, no longer having to rely on whatever piano available in the hall, makes them quite ubiquitous.

But having said all that the ever increasing number of harpers fulfill a similar role providing a layer under the melody instruments.

Ofcourse, from the audience's point of view, some people find it easier to listen to music when there's a backer involved, that will play a part too.

For example, just two weeks ago I was at a night with Tony Linnane and, Eamonn O'Riordan as part of a series of duet appearances billed as 'Just the Two'. Despite that premiss, they brought Conor Conolly as a +1 to drive the keyboard, which he did very nicely. I couldn't help thinking though, I would probably have enjoyed the night at least as much without the addition of the keyboard.

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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

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The older musicians often liked a but of ‘help’ from a backer when playing in a more ‘performance’ type of setting and the piano would have been the instrument of choice from the connection with the ceiliband sound.

…just two weeks ago I was at a night with Tony Linnane and, Eamonn O’Riordan as part of a series of duet appearances billed as ‘Just the Two’. Despite that premiss, they brought Conor Conolly as a +1 to drive the keyboard…
Thanks again! If I correctly understand that Tony Linnane put in a stint with the Kilfenora Céilí Band perhaps it influenced his perception of piano accompaniment. Is he related to Kitty Linnane?
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

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I am not sure Tony played with the Kilfenora although many musicians from the area sat in with them at one time or another but I don't think he was a regular member, if at all.

A man I knew followed me to the 1980 Willie week and stayed on in Clare after that for a while, making a living as a travelling piano tuner. He told me at the time he tuned the piano in the house of Tony Linnane's parents. Tony's mother commenting 'it looks a lot better now' when the job was finished. So there was a piano in his background.

But my point was really that the ceilibands have a lasting presence and influence in (Clare) music.

There's a whole rake of keyboard players around that freelance as backers for gigs. They just turn up and get on with it, no fuss.
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

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I am not sure Tony played with the Kilfenora although many musicians from the area sat in with them at one time or another….
But my point was really that the ceilibands have a lasting presence and influence in (Clare) music.
I got the impression that Tony was a member of the Kilfenora from what I assumed was producer’s commentary on a TG4 performance here. As you say, though, it’s secondary to the real point. If you’re game for extending its discussion, I’m also intrigued by the step some keyboardists are taking beyond ceili-type piano accompaniment, into peer-participation in the melodic ensemble. I assume that the performance with Conor Conolly on the keyboard to which you referred earlier is reasonably close to the one here.

One would never know from it that he is a solo whiz when left to his own devices. Ryan Molloy more directly reflects the extent of his keyboard skill in a performance with Fergal Scahill here. I can imagine Conor’s ever so well done comp nonetheless being dropped from the linked performance without diminishing its musical effect. Mr. Gumby, you said the same about the “Just the Two” concert. Would you agree that things are not as clear cut with Ryan’s accompaniment?

He comments on this himself and provides a useful review of the development and perception of accompaniment here, also ascribing pivotal significance to ceilibands. (This video discussion is well worth following at least from the linked point of entry through an embedded performance sequence, again with Fergal.) The obvious question about whether piano accompaniment is currently gaining intricacy on a broader front can be posed more generally in light of your further observation:
…the ever increasing number of harpers fulfills a similar role providing a layer under the melody instruments.
In a conversation about this, Janet Harbison once told me that it’s important for instruments capable of both melody and accompaniment to stick to one or the other when playing in a group. She wasn’t suggesting that the roles never be switched during the course of a session — just that when the instrument is played melodically, self accompaniment should be far more austere than would be appropriate in a solo context, if not dispensed with entirely. Conor follows that principle quite rigorously but Ryan much less so. Is there any indication of a wider trend toward more elaborate accompaniment in all this?
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

Post by stringbed »

If it were still possible to edit the preceding comment, I’d prune it substantially before adding this one. In the interim, I’ve looked at the development of keyboard accompaniment in ITM in the opposite direction.

Relevant pictorial and written evidence begins to appear in mid-18th century Scotland. I’ve gathered a few what I feel to be particularly pertinent images and source snippets in a blog post here.
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

Post by Mr.Gumby »

FWIW, Charlie Lennon, briefly mentioned in the blog linked above was the subject of the Rolling Wave special, see :

Charlie Lennon celebrated by The Rolling Wave

And I'll add this one, which I just stumbled into, a 1957 programme by Ciarán McMathúna: Ballinakill ceili band. Which, coincidentally, features an intervew with Anna Rafferty, arguably the first ceiliband pianist.
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

Post by stringbed »

Thanks for the additional links!

YouTube placed a further one at the head of my “New to You” list shortly after I put a link to the blog on my Facebook page. This is either an astonishing coincidence or kinda unsettling. Either way it’s a really interesting presentation of Niel Gow on his home territory, here.
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

Post by buskerSean »

Now, there are great players of every instrument. But imagine if certain instruments were to disappear forever, would you miss them?
Pipes
Fiddle
Flute
Whistle
Unthinkable to have ITM without them.
Bouzouki
Mandolin family
Guitar
Bodhran
I’d miss ‘em for sure
Concertina (any type, although English is particularly clown like)
Accordion (any type, although piano type can go up against the wall first.)
Piano of any description
Spoons/bones
Thank god for that 😂😂😂
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Re: Instrument fashion in Irish music

Post by Moof »

It's great in other types of music, but in ITM piano accompaniment brings me out in arsonist tendencies.

Bones/spoons used selectively can sound good, but please God not on every tune.

The rest I'd miss. A good box player can power a band or a session along, but I don't mind if you ban accordion basses.
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