Policing a session

[BigDavy]

Hi gaelic_gale

I am an offender in all the above areas I have played bodhran, djembe and spoons (along with udu, talking drum and darbuka) at sessions.

WRT to your bodhran players, if you have some sympathetic melody players, get them to practice duets outside the session itself, it will be amazing how they will come on when they have to hear themselves against a single instrument rather than in an amorphous session. The melody players will get some fun out of it and maybe thier timing will improve as well. If you have melody players that are a bit hesitant in the session this can be a non threatening way to build thier confidence up.

A good way to handle the spoons/djembe man would be to find somebody that can actually play djembe/spoons properly and bring her/him to the session and show him up It is obvious that he cannot, otherwise you would not be complaining in this fashion. (I have been used as a sickener before - funny thing in most cases I have ended up teaching the offender and resolving the situation that way). From what you say though, this guy is an asshole, good luck in getting rid of him.


David

[mukade]

Big Davy! Lord of the Youtube searches is a spoons man?
Good god!

To be serious, a talented bodhran/spoons/rubber chicken player can give a session a nice lift, but as I mentioned before, most are far from talented.

Mukade

[gaelic_gale]

WRT to your bodhran players,

I'm not a big internet chatter. What does this mean? I am a good bodhran player myself. I was taught by a master long ago (dirtyheel-I've seen him on this site, in fact). But I no longer take my drum to the pub because although we usually take turns, by the time my turn comes, I've had enough and want to hear a set or two without the bodhran. It's pointless to bring it. Rather depressing, actually.

I do know someone great at the spoons that might do as you suggested, but I'm thinking that might send our offender a mixed message. Our biggest problem with him is that he plays them too much. Wouldn't bringing in more spoons (even played sparingly) say to him "the more the merrier"?

[fearfaoin]

WRT to your bodhran players,

I'm not a big internet chatter. What does this mean?

WRT = With Respect To
It was pretty common shorthand even before the internet.
The military, and (perhaps by extension) engineers, love
Three Letter Acronyms (TLAs)

[eskin]

The "show them some tasteful, skilled playing and maybe they'll understand" technique only works if the offending party is basically well meaning and interested in improving. Your spoon man doesn't sound like he cares at all what you think and has clearly told you that he's there for his own enjoyment. This won't work. Let the pub owner know what's up, as a group confront this arrogant basmati, get in his space, tell him its time to go, and walk him to the door.

[straycat82]

There has been some good advice here on how to deal with such situations. However...

Marni,
Knowing the situation a little more intimately, and knowing what a selfish ass the person in question is, I think it's time to focus your efforts on trying to find a way to get rid of him. You have been WAY more than accomodating. He has expressed quite bluntly that he is not interested in doing it right or adding to the group, but rather is there for his own enjoyment. He is not playing Irish instruments and has shown no interest in playing Irish music. If I were you I would speak with the pub manager, explain that this gentleman (term used loosely) is causing a rift in the community of musicians and that it could potentially escalate to a nasty confrontation in the pub sometime in the future. Hopefully the management will back you on this and assist you in said spoon player's exit if neccessary. If I were in your place of leadership I would've confronted him face to face long ago, in the same stern manner that he is accustomed to speaking to others, and told him to leave. He has used up any and all politeness that is due to him. If he stays then he will only continue to take advantage of the hospitality of our wonderful group. He will continue to push the limits for his own selfish enjoyment. I'm sorry to see this has caused you so much stress and discomfort.

-Johnny

[gaelic_gale]

Fancy meeting you here Johnny,

Actually I've been enjoying this thread. I am interested in understanding how this is dealt with at other seisiuns worldwide. My question was not how to deal with our spoon man individually but why this does not happen as much elsewhere and when it does, how the other seisiuns deal with it.
Through these various folks I am getting an idea of how to properly police our session.

I had a conversation with our spoon man this afternoon and I doubt that he will be back. I was to the point but civil. He called our session a cross between a high school sorority & the Repulican party. I told him if he felt that way, perhaps it wasn't the place for him. Duh!

I appreciate the gesture, but I would never consider myself a leader of this group. Not while we have our dedicated old dogs of experience about. And when will you be next popping in to the pub?

[straycat82]

And when will you be next popping in to the pub?

When you guys can find a way to move it closer to my neck of the woods
It's about a hundred mile round trip right now, sheesh!
Even the Seamus' session I go to each week is a good 50 miles round trip for me!

I'm glad things are going better for you, I hope our spoon man won't trouble you anymore.

It is fascinating to hear what other sessions are like in other states/countries, I've gained a lot of insight just by lurking here. Still, I think the Irish session is quite a different beast than most here in the States. I found Mrs. Conner's insights particularly interesting last weekend.

[Key_of_D]

Yeah move the sessions closer says the piper!

[gaelic_gale]

Silly piper. That is what your car is for.


Do I hear some congratulatory applause and pint buying for my heroic removal of the offending spoons player? Gad! It feels so folk'n good to grow a backbone!

Thanks for the great thread. Excellent people here.

[anniemcu]

We have a great session with a core of folks that have played together for years. We also have some newer folks that drop in & out. Most of these latter ones are bodhran players with varying degrees of experience. Bodhrans are great, but sometimes we will have 6 or 8 at a session. They sometimes play 3 at a time and it sounds like a thunder & hailstorm.

Worse than this, we have had a guy coming with spoons and a djembe for the last 9 months. He plays well but...The djembe, as we've told him, belongs at an African session. The spoons would be a nice addition if they were used sparingly. They are not. He plays them through nearly all tunes. It is a constant racket that makes it difficult for the melody players to lock on to each other. We have chewed him out repeatedly (and the bodhran players as well) to no avail.

Phoenix is a funny place. Because of the building of the railroad and the Gold Rush & Irish being cheap labour, etc., we have an unusually large Irish population, and therefore, our seisiun is regrettably large. We will average anywhere from 12-30 folks on a Sunday afternoon. Granted, we will have some big issues, but...

This, I believe, just would not happen at most sessions. So why ours?

Oh yes, it happens elsewhere too.

One way to deal with it, since informing the unruly doesn't seem to have the desired effect, is to quietly step off and form another group, a core, if you will, who have well matched interests in the type, instrumentation and conviction to whatever level of authenticity you desire. It is a good way to pursue your own goals without getting terribly frustrated when the large session doesn't head that way. We've put ours just prior to the regular session, and it's been great. When we go to the regular one now we've already gotten a dose of what we need, and can relax more about what the rest are doing or not doing.

[anniemcu]

We have indeed started some house sessions. One has been at my place every other Friday for the last 5 years. But we love our venue. This is a fun spot. Maybe too fun!

I guess what gave me the impression that this doesn't happen so much at other sessions is that I've not seen it in my travels. We have a few guys at session from other cities that have complained the loudest, saying that this guy's djembe would never have made it out of his car. Or after the 3rd tune, his spoons would have been relocated to an interesting spot. Hhmm...

So how do they enforce that? The Sunday before last I confronted the spoons man politely and he near bit my head off. I then became very blunt. When I looked about me, my friends all seemed to be looking another way. The spoons man continued to play and I was the one who left in disgust.

Boy does that ring familiar. Funny how those who complain loudest about the thing suddenly disappear when it comes time to actually do something about it, eh?

I have reluctantly become the 'bitch' of the session, and so have recently decided to just quietly sit back and let it play itself out. Nobody wants to take on the responsibility (including me, actually, though i would if given the authority), and so no-one is in a position to act as *the* final authority in cases of disruption or contention. It's just too big a group for there to be no rules.

It gets extremely frustrating.

[anniemcu]

Hi gaelic_gale

I am an offender in all the above areas I have played bodhran, djembe and spoons (along with udu, talking drum and darbuka) at sessions.

WRT to your bodhran players, if you have some sympathetic melody players, get them to practice duets outside the session itself, it will be amazing how they will come on when they have to hear themselves against a single instrument rather than in an amorphous session. The melody players will get some fun out of it and maybe thier timing will improve as well. If you have melody players that are a bit hesitant in the session this can be a non threatening way to build thier confidence up.

A good way to handle the spoons/djembe man would be to find somebody that can actually play djembe/spoons properly and bring her/him to the session and show him up It is obvious that he cannot, otherwise you would not be complaining in this fashion. (I have been used as a sickener before - funny thing in most cases I have ended up teaching the offender and resolving the situation that way). From what you say though, this guy is an asshole, good luck in getting rid of him.


David

Davey, you are a gem!

[alurker]

..... I confronted the spoons man politely...

There's your problem right there....

To relay a related story: In what was one of the finest piece of session leadership I have witnessed, a guy I played with regularly leaned over to a newly arrived spoons player and with well feigned interest said "Can I take a look at your spoons there?" When he got them he stuck one in his back pocket, handed the other one back and started a set of tunes.

I believe the message was received loud and clear.

There are times when a session host has to be brutal.

In my opinion two bodhran players can occasionally add to a session if they are both excellent players. As a general rule, more than one is too many. One good bodhran player can add immensely to the music. I know a few very talented bodhran players living in one city. They will rarely join a session if there is already a bodran player sitting in.

[gaelic_gale]

I love your story. We had a laugh at session today.