My first recorded sean nós attempt

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:12 pm

http://www.box.net/shared/l1k0f58u7c

I'm new to gaelic in general and sean nós in particular, so be gentle, but honest, in critique. Please.

Tapadh leat

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:23 pm

What is 'sean nos' exactly anyway? I've seen the term around quite a few times, and it seems to relate something along the lines of dancing and singing, but I've never actually known what it is exactly.

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:57 pm

Sean nós means "old style." I can't speak to how that applies to dancing (as I only know how to mosh, and that's about it.) With refrence to singing sean nós is generally acapella. Of primary import to this style is the singer's understanding of the message and/or emotion of the song, and the ability to convey those elements to the listener. Emphasis is usually managed by ornamentation rather than dynamics.

I'm sure someone better practiced at it can chime in with aspects that I may have left out or got wrong entirely.

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:11 pm

Here's the wikipedia article on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_n%C3%B3s

sbhikes · Post by **sbhikes** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:16 pm

I thought it was beautiful. The only suggestion is possibly more ornamentation, something for which I have never asked from people who play instruments. Usually I want less.

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:10 pm

Being no expert at all on sean-nos singing, I thought your recording sounded quite nice. I myself did not feel a need for more ornamentation. You sound quite natural singing it, so I think you have chosen your first song well. Can't comment on your pronunciation! Again, I am no expert.

I am wondering if you could tell us about the song. I saw the title but I don't know what it means. I don't know if you have the Irish written down and could give a bit of a translation---but anything you could say about what the song means and relate it to your phrasing would be interesting to me. Then I would know what thoughts you are trying to convey at each point in the song, if that makes sense to you. This might be a really well-known song, so forgive me if I am asking something that everyone else knows.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:22 am

Nicely done! Only a few comments:

1) I'm not sure what dialect of Irish you're aiming for. If you're going for Munster or Connacht Irish, your pronunciation is pretty good, only I would say "amuigh" more like "ah-MOO" ("oo" as in what a cow says, not as in the "oo" in "book"). If you're after Ulster Irish, I'd say "uh-MWEE."

2) The "d" in "spideog" should be closer to a "j" sound in Ulster, or a "ds" sound in Connacht and Munster.

3) I think the ornamentation was find, if you're going for a Donegal style. They use a lot less florid ornamentation up there than they do in other parts of Ireland.

Over all, a really good effort (you have a good voice for sean nós!)

Cynth...the song is Éiníní. The title means "Little Birds." It's a lullabye. Here's a link to a bit of Mary McLaughlin's version of the song, with words, phonetics and a translation:

http://www.marymclaughlin.com/irishbookdemo.html

Basically, the first verse is as you see it there, the other verses call each of the birds by name...wren, raven, crow, etc., telling each to "go to sleep." The chorus is:

Codlaígí, codlaígí
Cois un claí amuigh, cois an claí amuigh (repeated)

And means...

Sleep, sleep
Outside at the foot of the wall, outside at the foot of the wall.

Key_of_D: In singing, sean nós is marked by the following features:

1) always in Irish
2) always a capella
3) ornamentation rather than dynamics used for emphasis
4) three basic types of ornamentation: melismatic (runs, turns, etc.), intervalic (singing notes at different intervals in repeated passages), and rhythmic (altering the rhythm in repeated passages).

In dancing, sean nós refers to the kind of dancing that was done in Ireland before the dancing masters turned step dancing into what it is today. The steps are similar, but without the high kicks and leaps, and the arms and upper body move naturally, rather than being held rigid. It's a little like clogging...in fact, it's most likely where clogging came from.

Redwolf

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:28 am

Thanks for the comments and compliments. I'm actually planning on doing mostly Gàidhlig songs when I know more of them, but Gaelic ones are easier to find, and since the phoenetic structure is similar I thought this would be a good tune for 'getting my feet wet' as it were.

Thanks again!

sbhikes · Post by **sbhikes** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:42 pm

It's a lullaby! I thought it sounded like a lullaby. It really sounds like one, and your voice is perfect for that.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:43 pm

So, does Scotland have a sean-nós tradition too? Very cool!

A good one, if you like it, is "Fear a'Bháta." Both Scotland and Ireland claim it...the truth of the matter is that it's probably crossed the water zillions of times between Donegal and Scotland, and no one knows where it actually originated. It works well in both languages, though.

In Ireland the "modern" sean-nós movement came about because so many people were singing parlour and music hall music at the Fleadh Ceoil. They made a special category for "old style" music, and defined it fairly rigidly. Of course, people have been singing in that style forever, but that's how it got labled "sean-nós."

Redwolf

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:31 am

I'd really like to learn more (see, hear, listen type deal) more about sean nos... Any good recources out there available?

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:32 am

Key_of_D wrote:Any good recources out there available?

I have copied this over from a thread in the Pub:

There are two books that I have found with the words, both in Irish and in phoenician ... er .... phonetics, plus a CD. They are:

Stepping Stones to Irish Song, by Seosaimhín Nic Rabhartaigh, which I got on-line from Custy's Music.

Singing in Irish Gaelic, by Mary McLaughlin, published by Mel Bay, so it can be ordered from just about any music shop.

A bit more advanced is the book and CD collection, The Songs of Elizabeth Cronin, which is aimed more at advanced song collectors, so there's no phonetics or other coddling.

Some may cringe, but The Irish Songbook by The Clancy Brothers has some songs in Irish with phonetics, as well.

I have a DVD-ROM from CIC called simply Sean-Nós, with samples of both Irish and Scot songs with transcriptions, but again, this is for serious collectors and no phonetics.

djm

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:58 am

Thanks, Redwolf, for the information you gave. That was just exactly what I was looking for.

Key_of_D wrote:I'd really like to learn more (see, hear, listen type deal) more about sean nos... Any good recources out there available?

For an introduction to listening to sean-nos singing I would recommend this recording.
I have copied this post from one I made a long time ago.
It is available at many places, not just the one I give. It is two CD's so more expensive than one,
but I think the price is a real bargain for what you get.

SEOLTAI SEIDTE - SETTING SAIL - FORTY-THREE HISTORIC RECORDINGS

"The Irish label Gael-Linn is celebrating its Golden Jubilee and has commemorated the event with the release of this magnificent collection, comprising all the recordings (43 in all) which the label released on twenty 78rpm discs between 1957 and 1961. Remastered to perfection by Harry Bradshaw, this collection is presented on two CDs, in a handsome DVD-style box, with a 96-page companion booklet authored by Irish Traditional Music Archives head Nicholas Carolan. The booklet, almost a book really, contains the detailed story of how the original records came to be made, comprehensive notes on all the performers and on each track, in particular with the full lyrics in Gaelic and English translation of the sean-nos songs which constitute about half the recordings. "
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CG_V ... eidte.html
This is the CD set I got that introduced me to many of the old time musicians. The sound quality is excellent, no worries about it being from older recordings. The instrumental performances are on all the traditional instruments and are all solos by some of the greatest musicians. They are playing dance tunes ("dance tunes" includes jigs and reels) and slow airs. Alternating between each instrumental track is a sean-nos track. The sean-nos (it means "old way" I think) style of singing is very, very different from anything I had heard. At first I did not like it. I decided not to "try" to like it, but I played these two CD's every night after I went to bed and just let my ears get used to the style of singing. After a while I started to really love the songs. I'm just telling you this because it is such an important part of the music to be exposed to and learn about but it might take getting your ear accustomed to because it is so different and you could feel a little shocked and disappointed the first time you listen to this singing. But I would really recommend that you listen to it in a relaxed (not straining to "get" it) and undistracted way over and over to allow your ears to get used to the sounds.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:22 am

Mary McLaughlin's book is excellent. It includes a CD that has, for each song, a recording of her speaking the words slowly (so you can practice saying them after her) and then singing the song relatively slowly and without ornamentation, so you can sing along and get a feel for it. The final track on the CD has her singing one of the songs in a more ornamented sean nós style, so you can get some idea as to how to ornament.

One thing to bear in mind when listening to sean nós collections is that the style can vary considerably from one part of the country to another. What might be sung in a very florid style in Cork will be sung in a much sparer style in Donegal. You'll want to keep variations in the language in mind as well...there are significant pronunciation differences between say, Ulster and Munster Irish, which can confuse people at first. Also, not all of the old, traditional singers have good vocal quality, which sometimes leads people to assume that you HAVE to have a gravelly, nasal, voice to sing sean nós! While you don't want to have a classical vocal quality (and you especially want to avoid vibrato), there are no rules that a sean nós singer has to sound like a chain smoker (although, as an erstwhile chain smoker, I have a bit of a leg up on that part of the tradition!

). The more you listen, the more you'll get a handle on what you prefer.

One good way to hear a variety of sean nós singers is to listen to the annual Fleadh Ceoil. It's always broadcast on Raidió na Gaeltachta, and parts of it are often broadcast on TG4, both of which are available free of charge on line. I'm not sure when the Fleadh is this year, but I can look it up in Treoir when I go downstairs.

Redwolf