How tuneable is a chanter...REALLY?

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 11:56 am

We all are aware that a chanter can be tuned to itself, using a combination of collar adjustments, rushes, samll rolls of paper, bits of plastic, tape on the finger holes etc. etc. etc... But most of us are also aware that changing one parameter of the tuning of a particular chanter will affect the rest of it on the whole, as a general rule.

So my question to the masters is this. Just how tuneable IS the modern chanter?? Is there one magical spot that it will be completely in tune with itself? If we try to tune up or down (even in small bits) to fit in with other instruments, will it throw our own internal tuning off then, as in one octave to the next and so forth?

I hear again and again that other musicians in a session generally try to tune to those who cannot. ie: pipes, concertinas, etc. But is there anything for it if you happen to play with a group stuck on their dumb electric tuners?

How much can we really bend as pipers to tune to others, and what can we expect the results to be when we try to shift our tone up or down a few cents?

Vauge questions I know, but perhaps soem can give me a bit to go on, and I can refine my questions. Thanks once again!

Bri~

AlanBurton · Post by **AlanBurton** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:07 pm

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 6:14 pm

Thanks Alan,

Not quite what I was getting at, but helpful even so. The main question I had, was how flexible can one be with an uilleann pipe chanter, and still have it be in tune with itself - more or less anyway?

B~

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:40 pm

Brian, part of your answer depends on the reed and chanter. Ideally, your pipemaker intended them to be fairly accurate. Alan already mentioned a few cents either way before they go awry.
It's possible to have your bottom D and back D in tune and G,A and B sound flat. On my D chanter it usually means the bridal is a bit too high (lips forced open) when I lower it things come back into 'alignment' but bottom D may gurgle if I over adjust. There's a narrow margin of perfection.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 8:23 pm

Tony,

That's pretty much what I was getting at. With whistles, by moving the mouthpiece in or out, you have a fair degree of tuneability, while still remaining relatively in tune.

With pipes (although moving the reed in or out in the same manner as a tuning slide is quite rare as I understand it) if this were possible, I was wondering how it would affect the overall tuneing of the chanter.

So, are there any hard and fast rules such as opening the reed does *THIS* to a chanter's tone etc??

Thanks though for both of your answers so far

B~

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 8:46 pm

Breaking a reed usualy worsens the tone. Cat urine on the reed (according to some post somewhere) before making the reed gives it a bright sound and makes it less sensitive to weather change.

Seriously, though (although both of the above are true), there are many, many alterations that can be done to reeds to alter sound/tone/&c. Best bet for learning what does what is to make reeds yourself and experiment. Pick up a crapload of reed cane and keep playing around until you learn what you need or want to learn.

Get different reed making books and try different techniques (or look on the web). I learned a lot from comparing and using traditional techniques, techniques offered by other pipemakers (Tim Britton, &c) and just plain old playing around.

I'm still learning. I haven't found my personal-ideal reed style yet, but I can make excellent reeds in various styles that are in tune over all octaves in multiple chanters. I also learned which adjustments do what in trying to fix my early attempts.

Once you get the basics down, it doesn't take that long to make a reed so you can experiment more.

Dionys

bagpipeworks · Post by **bagpipeworks** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 5:07 pm

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bagpipeworks on 2002-12-14 11:36 ]</font>

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 7:09 pm

Many good comments here, and Davy...well put!
I don't have all the answers but would like to add this...

Technically, the temperment scale on a piano has every note slightly out of tune with the rest so that this off-tuneness produces a beauty in the 3-note chord that is all compromise..equally so. If it was tuned perfect, only one or two chords would sound good...the others rotten. Sound familiar to anyone trying to tune the regs so they all sound and stay perfect?

The books describe the temperment scale (usually F to F on both sides of middle C) as "a series of tolerable imperfections." The electronic tuners only help to assure that it is off the correct amount. I think the same would apply to a chanter and reed in perhaps a greater scale.

If you started out with a perfect reed, 65 degrees F., humidity stable, you might drill a chanter perfectly to the reed. But most of us are stuck with the reverse, which is much harder, although many have tried to adjust the chanter to one particular reed only to ruin the wood for the next better reed.

I've never encountered an instrument as tempermental as the UPs, but when they're "in-tune," so to speak, it's well worth the trouble. Everything has to be perfect, so to speak, to really enjoy them.

Anyone know why an oboe can be tuned perfectly? I doubt if it is. The player is constantly making corrections and adjustments with his embouchure, pressure, moisture, etc? The UP player depends on his elbow, weather, cane/reed quality, and skill...sometimes adjusting notes in mid- stream. Perfect is relative, and sometimes quite relative.