elder reeds

anima · Post by **anima** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 10:16 am

I'm in the midwest of the USA, Can anyone recommend a good place to look for elder to be growing. Also, according to what I've read, American elder is smaller and shrubbier than European elder - does the American variety get big enough to find pieces suitable for reed making?

Does anyone know if Brendan Ring makes custom reeds? I know he uses elder reeds, and his pipes on "Troublesome Things" are crystal clear in tone - very nice (in fact the whole CD is nice)

Jeff
Kansas City

Kevin Popejoy · Post by **Kevin Popejoy** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 10:28 am

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 10:33 am

Jeff,
Tansy says it grows in his locale.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 92&forum=6

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 11:27 am

Does anyone know which variety is the best? or if you can use different species ?

Dionys

pdunn · Post by **pdunn** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 3:01 pm

Just a few quick questions, Do elder reeds hold up better than cane? And do they sound significantly different than cane reeds (assuming they are well made and well matched to the set)? Is it easier or harder to work with?
I have never heard a set with elder reeds in it. I wouldn't recommend c.d.'s as a way of evaluating pipes sounds because one can change so much during the processing stage.
Any info Thanks Pat

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:16 pm

They do sound significantly different, and I am quite fond of the sound. It's different to work with than cane. You can't 'split' the drone reed as with cane, you have to actually cut the tongue. I've heard the preference for chanter reeds with Elder requires a larger diameter piece than the usual 24-26mm for cane.

Dionys

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:34 pm

Dear Anima,
Just as a thought, you may check with a local brew it yourself wine store. Elderberry flowers are used in the making of piesporter(spelling?)white wines and a supplier of home wine kits may have access to the cuttings of their flower and berry supplier. Just a thought.
Cheers
Marc

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:39 pm

Pat,
Here's a few bits of information to help with the elder reeds.
Brendan Ring... a talented piper, has a website w/ sound samples of pipes reeded in elder. Unless you can make it to a concert or session where someone is using them, you can only go by the sound files (or CD)
http://www.brendanring.com/
Here is an earlier discussion about elder:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 92&forum=6
and another...
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 30&forum=6

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 5:41 pm

Donnacha Gough of Danú plays an elder chanter reed in his D Burke set (I think Brendan Ring made it for him). Bloody hard to blow but gives him no problems in all weather conditions.

Drone reeds are a more common use for elder in the pipes and have a *sweet* tone. Usually sets of pipes made to take elder drone reeds are of a different design, possibly because the elder plays quieter.

There is some folklore about the cutting of elder (or maybe it was hazel) I have in a book at home I'll have to look up.... very interesting! I'll post it here when I find it.

Patrick.

geber · Post by **geber** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 12:11 am

Elder grows wild all over the South(AL & TN that is). Makes good wine and jelly. I've got about 20 trees that line my driveway, but i'm not sure if it is the right type, not a lot of info on the subject.

brendan ring · Post by **brendan ring** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 1:24 am

The sound of my pipes on the CD is very representative of the real sound of the set I used, there is just a little reverb added.
If you turn the CD up loud you'll hear there is a very buzzy, harmonic sound. I simply could not have got this sound without elder reeds, cane reeds would not have produced a sound nearly as nice. Elder double reeds, for me last longer, are more stable, and are louder, sweeter and easier to blow than cane. But this is just a personal opinion. However, the CD sound is the true sound of the pipes and I have never heard another concert set with this type of tone. I'm not saying it's better or worse than any other!

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 1:51 am

On 2002-09-13 19:41, Patrick D'Arcy wrote:
Donnacha Gough of Danú plays an elder chanter reed in his D Burke set (I think Brendan Ring made it for him). Bloody hard to blow but gives him no problems in all weather conditions.

Patrick.

Actually I was talking to Donncha recently and he was having Brian Howard fit a reed to that chanter. When I friendly questioned his sanity he maintained 'nobody can fit a reed to a Burke like Brian, look at how Finbar Furey sounds'.

Like a lot of people, he probably has EVERYBODY making reeds for him.

omarapiping · Post by **omarapiping** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:54 am

Some one metioned that elder reeds are good in most weather. I'm over in Perth western Australia and I really notice the difference between summer and winter on the reed. Is there anyone in Aus who does elder reeds?

Cheers,
Liam

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:44 am

Liam, who are your contacts for cane reeds in Australia?

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 12:20 pm

Here's that bit of folklore I was talking about, it's from Kevin Danaher's book "long Ago in Ireland" talking about dowsers and their divining rods, please substitute diviner/dowser with reedmaker wherever necessary

-

"It must be one year's growth, and so placed in the tree or bush that the midday sun shone directly through it.It must be cut at a certain time, during the Christmas period or on St. John's Eve or on the afternoon of Good Friday. At midnight on the Sunday after a full moon, according to others. Some held that in cutting it from the tree or bush one should stand with one's back to it and cut it through with one stroke of the knife, while others maintained that it should be cut with three cut's in the name of the Holy Trinity while saying a prayer and asking God to bless it and permit it to do good work. But some believed that evil could be worked with it, for instance that a thief could use it to open locks, and for such use it must be cut in the name of the Devil; at this stage the Old Boy himself put in an appearance and endowed the rod with all sorts of magic powers - in exchange for the soul of the would-be thief, of course. All this jiggery-pokery did not help towards a rational examination of the water diviners strange power, and although there always were honest diviners who had no use for blackmagic, the efforts of a few charlatans brought a lot of disrepute on the whole art and it's practitioners."

So once again we see that things were done a "little" differently in times gone by, maybe there was something in it?

Patrick.