Browne, O'Loughlin

lemonsquash · Post by **lemonsquash** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:50 pm

Anyone know if Peter O'Loughlin does anything to his fiddle other than lower the pitch of the strings when he plays with Ronan Browne's B set? Or if, in fact, it is just a standard fiddle tuned lower rather than a specially constructed instrument?

Thanks,

L

meuritt · Post by **meuritt** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 8:05 am

I have no specific knowledge but I will relate a short story that happened to me three weeks ago. A friends father was over visiting from Iresland, a very fine fiddler and seemingly knowledgeable about the old ways of the music as well as modern practices. We talked about this. He said that most would tune down their fiddle, but a really good fiddler would not need to. So I pulled out my flat set for some tunes with him, and he stopped playing, not being inclined to tune down, I guess

I have asked some other 'name brand fiddlers' they all say tuning down is the way to go. Even when I play with guitar/mando players, tuning down is the fastest way to get going, capoing doesn't usually work, there is something to do with hearing/hand coordination that one particular manocello player was trying to explain once.

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:10 am

Hi,

A few years ago at Willie Week I had the distinct pleasure of listening to Ronan and Peter play some tunes together, in Marrinan's I think it was. Ronan was playing his Harrington B set. Peter just tuned his fiddle down to the set and all was grand.

I was talking to Peter later and he told me that some fiddles allow you to tune down that low. Others won't. Maybe it has something to do with the string tension and the bridge height? I think he said that German fiddles were better for tuning down but don't quote me on that!

All the best,

Patrick.

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 12:31 pm

I have heard that in some cases the fiddler may use slightly heavier strings when tuning down-thus avoiding the so called "knicker elastic" phenomenon.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 3:28 pm

When a fiddler tunes down, there's less pressure on the bridge and thus less volume and tone will be produced from the wood of the instrument. Increasing the size of the gage in the strings compensates for this. The soundpost in some fiddles may also drop out if they are too short...you have to handle with care. To tune down from from D to B you could lose 15-20%(or more)capacity.

Guitars strings, for example, often come in light, medium, or heavy gage. The heavy gage will make the instrument sound louder, with better tone, but the tension may tear the bridge out of the top, depending on the top.

One reason why a 10' grand piano sounds better than a 5' grand is because there's greater tension in the strings (to bring it up to the same pitch), a longer sounding lenght in the string (to create richness of impedance and harmonics)and more pressure applied to the soundboard.

Everything depends though. Some violins still sound good with less tension on the strings, because of the type of grain in the wood, the arch, the thickness and graduation of the wood from center to edge, the quality of the bridge, and the age of the strings. I know some violins that can sound like a million bucks just by tuning the strings up 1/2 step above standard pitch.

It's a little like (but not exactly) moving a bridle down on a reed...you get less volume and different tone produced from the chanter, if the whole reed is made correctly, but in reeds that can also change the tuning a little. It's not like pulling the reed out further or pushing it in.

(Do I hear some people saying, "oh shut-up and just play the tune!" ?)

[ This Message was edited by: Lorenzo on 2002-08-29 17:32 ]

lemonsquash · Post by **lemonsquash** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 3:43 pm

No, Lorenzo, you're the man. I love that kind of thoroughness. Thanks to everyone for their replies--I expected that P. O'L was just tuning down, I wanted to see what was what because some fiddlers love tuning down while others wouldn't think of it. What I'm really doing is research prior to buying a flat set so that I can talk string players into joining me. Again, thanks.

L

Bok Choi · Post by **Bok Choi** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:30 pm

Just tuned the ol' fiddle down to B for kicks; the lower strings were mildly flaccid but the sound was warm and rich. Too late to give it a proper test drive tonight--if it hasn't collapsed by morning from the altered tensions we'll see how it sounds then. Now to find a piper with a B set...

Bok

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:25 pm

Have you considered VIOLA strings on a fiddle?You can call it a VELLO
Slan go foill

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:59 pm

Could the neck of a violin take the stress of viola strings? Not a bad idea if it can, but you wouldn't want to end up with a broken neck. So to speak.

Dionys

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:05 pm

Dionys,
I tend to think you would have no problems using viola strings on a detuned violin. It would certainly make the notes more stable and less 'flaccid' as Bok Choi so describes.
I haven't talked to piper Eamonn Dillion in in a while. His sister, Roisin plays fiddle in his band Curfa... perhaps she's experienced in detuning fiddles. I'll send him an e-mail and see what answers I get!

meuritt · Post by **meuritt** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 7:19 am

I don't know if viola strings work on fiddle, but I do know for certain that there are strings available that work on a regular fiddle that drop the pitch a whole octave. Sounds good on some fiddles, not on others. Two of my fiddling friends have used these strings on an extra fiddle.

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 3:51 pm

I was talking about this very thing with a fiddling friend of mine yesterday at the local session. I was trying to convince her that she should tune down and we could have some B tunes at some point. I mentioned what Peadar had said about German fiddles being better for tuning down. She then mentioned, and I was very interested to learn, that German fiddles have a longer scale length, thus supporting my Peadar O'Loughlin paraphrase.

Very eeeeeeenteresting,

Patrick.

[ This Message was edited by: Patrick D'Arcy on 2002-09-02 17:54 ]

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 4:12 pm

Patrick...I don't think so. That sounds like "old wives tales." It took nearly 400 years to standardize the sounding length in a violin (fiddle-no difference). The original violins had a shorter neck but along towards the 19th century that got pretty standardized.

Most all of the old fiddles from that era have had replacement necks. The scroll was nearly always saved and grafted back onto the new and longer neck. If you can find one of these they are worth a lot of money.

The standard sounding length of just about any violin is 13" while the back measures 14 and 1/8" but it's true there are exceptions, albiet not often. This goes for violins from all over the world.

I could be wrong, but I keep thinking about German necks being longer, and trying to stay focused, I'm wondering if "sticking your neck out" might sound better. (Lord knows I've seen too many German...fiddles, ie)

[ This Message was edited by: Lorenzo on 2002-09-02 18:14 ]

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 4:45 am

fellow forumers feareth not Viola strings on a fiddle work...try it and remembereth me !
Slan go foil
Liam