Delivery Times...failure to deliver

CoyneLover · Post by **CoyneLover** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:09 am

I've a question for you lads. I've been fighting with a pipemaker in the UK for quite a while...trying to get this individual to deliver the goods...so to speak. Currently this maker is approximately 10 months past his quoted delivery time. I am so SICK of being screwed by this person..and I am NEVER going to do business with ANY overseas maker AGAIN.

The Question is this...should I continue to let the bugger "lead me on" or should I admit defeat, resign myself to the fact that I've been shafted, and proceed to undertake a negative campaign regarding this indivudual so that other players are not victimized as well!

WHat say you?

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:34 pm

My suggestion is as follows:

Send him a formal letter stating that you want another set date for delivery and a guarantee of satisfaction for the set. Don't let it be more than a few months. Unless he has some serious illness in his family, 10 months overdue is unfair and unkind to you. Mention that if he does not agree to this, or if he does not in some way give you satisfaction, that you will make all the details of your transactions with this maker known on the C&F list, UP mailing list and will be requesting of NPU and other 'central' pages that they post a warning against him.

Give him one last chance to set things right, and make sure he understands that if he does not that it will be made public. If things go bad and he will not honour your request, then when you finally do let the details out, do so in a measured, honest, direct (non-ranting) tone or you will not be taken seriously. List your complaints and specific stories of how he dealt with you. Don't be general and say "he was an ass.. I'm tired of dealing with him.." or those types of comments. No one will pay attention.

I hope it works out for you. Best of luck and best wishes.

Dionys

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 9:37 am

I suppose overseas means non-US?

If so, I think you're being a bit unfair in tarring them all with the same brush, even though a 10-month overrun is not unusual.

One of the factors which led me to order from Andreas Rogge was his reputation for reliability on delivery dates. As it happened, even he overran by a few months on an order for a full set, but it was at a time when people working with him were moving, which he couldn't foresee when he gave me the original date.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 11:10 am

You know, pipemakers are busy people, they usually run things out of the back of the shed, they are not big production companies, people drop in all the time expecting attention and tunes and entertainment. And some of them ar just Joe Soap turning out the odd chanter. These things happen, whether you like it or not. Did you pay a deposit, did you enter into an agreement? And above all did you ask for the reason of the delay? By the end of the day there's little you can do.

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 11:30 am

Yeah.. I suppose that is one of the more important questions. Did you ask him why they're late? Even the 'best' makers are known for being late sometimes due to unforseen circumstances.

Dionys

brendan ring · Post by **brendan ring** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 3:35 pm

As a professional pipemaker I have to say that we are rarely on time, if the work is to be good. As Peter says, people call in, they expect reeds, tunes ect they think we don't have lives! I generaly tell my customers that the delivery date is an approximation, I allow myself a couple of months leeway. However, I suspect Coyne Lover is talking about a certain pipemaker I think I spoke to him about before. This man, if he be the same, kept me waiting at the age of thirteen for five years for a set of pipes I never received, he is also a bad uilleann pipe maker. I think as regards delivery, I think a couple of months over is OK but once you are getting to a year pull out! I had so much heartbreak as a young piper that I would never do that to anyone and would return any deposit if things got that bad. I think you should ask for the deposit back and go elsewhere.

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:35 pm

Hiya Brendan, did you read my PM? Am I forgiven?

Peter, you wouldn't be shoring up your old buddy's reputation there by any chance, would you?

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:38 pm

Peter is always helping his friend's reputation. Of course his friend's reputation is already quite good so his compliments aren't empty. There's absolutely nothing wrong with singing the praises of a pipemaker's work, even if they are a friend.

Dionys

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat Apr 20, 2002 1:47 am

On 2002-04-19 19:35, Roger O'Keeffe wrote:

Peter, you wouldn't be shoring up your old buddy's reputation there by any chance, would you?

Nothing of the sort here, having a pipemaking buddy handy does give you an insight into the other side of it, here you hear mostly the stories from the customers sde, I see some of the thing the customers are up to. Not always very pretty either.

Nice one that happened last year: pipemaker is fiddling away in workshop, phone rings, piper on other end want reeds for chanter pipemakers has no time for, no thanks not my job to do that, customer keeps at it, after nearly an hour on the phone pipemaker gives in, OK send the thing over. Next day, package arrives at PO, pipemaker drives the 4 four miles to PO, on return to workshop finds piper has not included reed head (which he will need to fit reed properly, goes on phone to piper, piper sends reed cap, pipemaker off to post office 4 miles in and 4 back again. Sits down with chanter, spends most of a day fiddling with it to find what reed style it takes, makes two reeds that work fairly well. Drives to post office, posts chanter. Two days later package arrives, pipemaker goes to PO to collect. Package has two reeds and note 'did like them so send reeds back, bye now'.
No money changed hand as no product was purchased. A working day and a half was lodst over it. And you wonder why they are late sometimes??

What I am saying is, the strange thing in the piping world is that one one level people seem to expect to be on friendly/informal terms with their pipemaker and when it comes to delivery they may turn suddenly all formal etc. (ofcourse there are Rogues and cowboys out there that deserve that).
It is a wellknown fact this is an enormous strain on the makers, several have left the profession to become, say, accupuncturist or that sort of thing and others find it extremely hard to cope with this side of the business. Do realise that when you drop in on your pipemaker and chat him up for a few hours , you may be the fifth visitor that day and you are taking working hours away from him. Your man may still enjoy the company though, but don't go all fussy when the delivery dates move up a bit. [straying away a bit from the original subject, which seems to have a different context, hope you don't mind]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-04-20 06:48 ]</font>

CoyneLover · Post by **CoyneLover** » Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:56 pm

Brendan,
You got it. You and I HAVE spoken of this individual before. I have not mentioned his name simply out the fact that I am not prepared to act yet. I am given a polite notice. The second will be a warning of my intended actions.The third act shall be an all out information campaign.

Dionys...that was good advice. This indivudual has been leading me on for months. Dropped out of contact for months, then continued to lead me on over and over and over again. I fully understand a pipemaker have problems with delivery dates from time to time. But this person was only making a CHANTER. And NEVER once has this person warned me of a delay. Never once have they actually apologised! NEVER once, since the initial failure to deliver has this person given me an actual delivery date. Just promises...quickly broken. I have NEVER done business with a poorer craftsmen or businessman in my entire LIFE. I have dealt with many a maker. And I have spoken with many a maker regarding the details of this situation..and all feel it is unbearable and unexcuseable! Unfortuneately...I paid cash up front (stupid me!) and as soon as this maker received my cash...ALL communications promptly ended! I have repeatedly asked for either the promised chanter or my cash back. And have never received anything but a promise that it would be done in a week!

I will not mention this maker's name until I am ready. I feel that I would like to give this person one last chance.

Please forgive me..I don't mean to rant and rave and come off as a person with a grudge. I have been incredibly understanding and forgiving. But the constant lieing has driven me insane!

CL

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:41 pm

Point well put, Peter, and I am very conscious of that side of the issue. I should have added a

as the question was meant in a light-hearted way.

joey_schu · Post by **joey_schu** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:08 pm

CL,

Check your private messages when you get a chance.

Thanks!
Joey