Is reviewing pipes a pointless exercise ?

rorybbellows · Post by **rorybbellows** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:31 am

I,ve come to the conclusion that on this forum at least it is, and for a number of reasons
Firstly we don,t really know in most cases who the reviewers are or how qualified they are in accessing pipes .We can only take their opinion for what it is,An opinion and peoples opinions can vary dramatically.
Secondly reviews tend to be bias to the positive due to the nature of this forum,in that as soon as negative reviews start to appear tempertures start to rise, things get personal and then the tread gets locked !

Its very hard to draw any conclusion from any of these reviews for these reasons and others,at the end of the day the best review is to hear pipes live played by someone who can get the best from them and make your own mind up

RORY

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:58 am

True in many ways, but if the reviewer tried hard enough, a negative review could be written that was helpful and would not start a flame war.

The real problem is a lack of details. It's all well and good to have a review of how pipemaker X's pipes are great without pictures, sound files, or descriptions of what makes it great. Tone is such a subjective thing that merely saying "this has good tone" is not really enough. Saying, "the tone of these pipes reminds me of Tommy Recks set on the fourth track of his Stone in the Field recording" on the other hand, actually gives me a basis to understand what you mean by good tone.

It's all about the details.

PJ · Post by PJ » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 am

There's also the matter of the vested interest the piper has in the reputation of his pipemaker. If a piper says "I paid $5,000 for a set of Mr. X's pipes and they're rubbish" he can kiss his $5,000 good bye as Mr. X's rep will be affected and the piper will never be able to sell his X pipes and buy a different set.

That said, there have been a few instances over the past 6 months when sets have come up for sale on eBay and discussions on this forum have helped guide the buyers. As long as people keep a cool head, there's no harm in healthy discussion.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:04 am

Some aspects to consider in a review...
Price
Sound (tone)
Volume
Workmanship
Ergonomics
Customization
Durability
Aesthetics
Wait time

goldy · Post by **goldy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:18 pm

A review is entirely subjective and I would hope that everyone would bare that in mind when reading it.

I can remember one time when someone raved about the excellent tone and tuning of a chanter that they heard at a tionol, which led me to visit the maker's website as I have a good ear for pitch and wanted to see if this chanter would be worth replacing my current chanter with. When I listened to the sound sample on the site, the tone was nice, but the tuning was far from perfect (I imagine that the tionol player made the reed himself or spent more time than the maker did in adjusting the reed to perfection).

I think that you can only trust a review if you personally know the reviewer and know that they have similar tastes to you. If someone were to comment on the excellent tuning of a chanter and recommend ordering one if your focus was on tuning issues, I would want to be satisfied that they have perfect pitch abilities.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:39 pm

Sorry, but if you're looking for perfect pitch, are bagpipes really the right instrument for you?

One of the big issues for me initially was to get over the tuning differences on pipes. Now I go for tone character, and only worry about tuning if it goes too far astray. Clearly a chanter review by me would not meet your needs, emphasizing Rory's original comments.

djm

goldy · Post by **goldy** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:50 pm

Sorry, but if you're looking for perfect pitch, are bagpipes really the right instrument for you?

That's exactly what my wife says when she sees me taking off the wind cap and fiddling with the reed half way through a tune!

I don't actually require a perfectly tuned (relative tuning) chanter, but I find it really frustrating when the the two octaves don't match and the back D is off. Slight sharpness of flatness can be tollerated, but not be unnoticed. I actually like a slightly flat Cnat as I find it a beautiful haunting note when just a little flat, and my Simack chanter produces a flat first octave F that does not bother me in the slightest (higher notes being out seem to stand out the most).

Anyway... I'll note your comment never to trust a review from yourself. Although, based on some of the cheeky responses I've seen you give to posts in the past, I've learned not to trust anything you say as being serious

:roll:

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:34 pm

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Yes, I am eeeeevviiiillll!

But my point is that we each have our own tastes and preferences on top of the valid issues that Rory made at the beginning of this thread. I have heard people say wonderful things about some makers' sets, but when I have heard sets by these makers in person I was underimpressed. I don't believe anyone can be totally right or wrong about these things. We each operate by our own personal criteria.

I bought my first half-set unheard and unseen, but it was by (I was told) a reputable maker. I spent a lot of money getting it reworked, and took a drubbing on the resale, but by that time I was at least "in the game" - meaning I was learning to play and attending tionols, etc. I bought my second set because it sounded good to my ears (still does).

For first-time buyers I would recommend getting something not too cheap, but don't expect to get the best first time out, either. Take advantage to go and personally hear sets by several makers whenever possible. Take recommendations by other pipers here and elsewhere with a grain of salt. Be prepared to own more than one set in your piping life before you discover what it is you want.

djm

maw · Post by **maw** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:53 am

Tony wrote:Some aspects to consider in a review...
Price
Sound (tone)
Volume
Workmanship
Ergonomics
Customization
Durability
Aesthetics
Wait time

Good customer service might go a long way too

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:17 am

maw wrote: Good customer service might go a long way too

I considered that.
Being a great guy doesn't make the pipes play any better.

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:16 am

Tony wrote:
maw wrote: Good customer service might go a long way too
I considered that.
Being a great guy doesn't make the pipes play any better.

It can if it means that the maker will work hard to fix any issues or spend time talking you through adjustments.

KAD · Post by **KAD** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:22 pm

WannabePiper wrote:
It can if it means that the maker will work hard to fix any issues or spend time talking you through adjustments.

I second that motion. Responsiveness is not merely a chanter issue. A maker who ignores questions or dismisses feedback -- or is even just really hard to get hold of -- can cause a piper, especially a newbie, to give up or shop elsewhere.

I think it would be helpful to know about such issues before buying a set.

KAD

goldy · Post by **goldy** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:21 pm

djm wrote:

For first-time buyers I would recommend getting something not too cheap, but don't expect to get the best first time out

I had the same experience as you. I went with a maker due to his reputation. The chanter certainly is good, but I've struggled with one particular tuning problem for too long. Therefore, I have put in an order with a different maker to replace it since I was able to sample the goods prior.

Maw wrote:

Good customer service might go a long way too

It just so happens that my new maker offers a very friendly and eager customer service (not that the old one didn't). He said that he would give me an update on the progress of the chanter after two months and he is planning on only taking 4-5 months to make it. Funnily enough, the two month point will technically be tomorrow so I'll see if he is exactly true to his word

All the best.

Pelham · Post by **Pelham** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:03 am

The main problems with reviews that we currentlty have is who is giving them.

To be quite honest, you can read a review from a very inexperienced player who really isn't able to properly asess the instrument. In fact I have seen these many times, having heard the players who are giving these reviews at tionols, etc.

Now, that's not to say that these pipers don't have a right to develop and share their opinions on the instruments they play. Of course they do! But, personal preference, and one's opinion of the instruments (and hence the review) can be colored by one's level of technical experience.

I personally wouldnn't buy pipes off of ANY reviews, it's just too risky to figure out whether your preferences align with someone elses' or whether or not that person really can make a judgement on the quality of the instrument in the first place.

In my opinion, it's better, is for "reviewers" to take detailed pictures of pipes, sing the praises of pipemakers who are great with communication, and available to help when there are problems, and maybe make a quality recording or two of someone playing the set. Between this and the information available from the pipemaker, this would probably be enough to let anyone know if they were interested in learning more.

If you are, the only real way to decide is to PLAY a set by the maker (one representative of the work you would get from the maker), or if you're a beginner and couldn't asess by playing, have an experienced piper that you trust (I mean advanced level - plays pipes well, and has been doing so for a number of years) play the set, or tell you if they've played a set by that maker.

My method may seem cautious, but there's a lot at stake when you consider craftmanship, reeding, your personal tastes, and not least of course, the cost of a set of pipes.

Cheers,
Pelham

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:18 am