Scott full set for sale

A forum about Uilleann (Irish) pipes and the surly people who play them.
Kevin L. Rietmann
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Post by Kevin L. Rietmann »

Lorenzo wrote: Interesting alternate thumb note (key above top finger hole on front). Looks like the key is made to play with the left index finger.
Actually that's a key for obtaining e''', in the third octave. The Cnat key being fitted on the side of the chanter is something I've never seen before. Bb is in the back, great for lots of grim tunes.

Unfortunately the chanter has been quite thoroughly hosed, here is a description from the seller:

"Hello
The chanter is 17 inches long as stated in additions to the auction notice. The chanter looks as though someone has tried to run a drill through from the foot end and has added two finger holes, one 2 and 7/8ths of an inch the other 4 and 1/16 of an inch from the foot. At the foot end the bore is 5/8ths of an inch and off centre and at the other 1/4 of an inch. All the ivory seems to be natural ivory and the other bores appear to be OK.
It will be impossible to export outside the European Union due to CITES embargoes.
I have attached a scan of the foot of the chanter.
Best regards.
Mike Ginsberg."

The "scan of the foot of the chanter" shows that the bore is as wide as the ivory mount itself. I don't think it's quite that simple to just fill in a bore, unfortunately. Filling in and revoicing holes can be done, Ken McLeod had to do this with a Kenna C chanter. Perhaps a bunch of wires in the bore could get you on the way to bringing the chanter somewhat back to life. But the best solution would be a new chanter with a close approximation of what the original bore most likely had: 3.75mm throat, 10.1mm bell perhaps.
He's quite off about being unable to export these pipes, right? Antiques are clear of the board, and this is unquestionably older than 100 years, which is still the cutoff point, innit? 1826-1845, like it says above. This looks much older if you ask me.
Jim McGuire
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Post by Jim McGuire »

That set could be easily shipped, that set and ivory look very old and a Customs agent would agree.

People have plugged up holes in chanters with the same wood, different colored wood, and ivory. The trick is getting the holes right.

On one Egan set, the throat had been opened up for volume many, many years ago - very common to see that. Someone recently used Superglue Gel to build up the throat and then re-drilled it.
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reedman
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Post by reedman »

I'm telling you this set has been Butchered,I don't believe a maker who
can woodturn this good and make lovely regs like thee's would stick a bass return bend like that on the end :-? , the drones have been shortened, this set has seriously been butchered, the only way anyone can save this set is to hope, that the butcher has not altered the regs in any way. I'll telly ya!. No wonder the tops missing or you would then see then how much the chanter would be out of proportion with the bottom end,even the ferrule is missing from between the ivory's at the throat area of the top of the chanter. after looking closer at this set I think the chanter's oringinal length was 17.50inches a little sharp of Bnat and they have'nt been able to reed it up. I don't think I would be far wrong!. This sort of thing really fecking annoy's me spoiling sets like thee's. :evil: Would the butcher please read the verse below and take heed. :really:
There's those who know,
and there's those who think they know,
and there's those who just have'nt got a fecking Clue.
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reedman
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Post by reedman »

Sorry. :oops: Just noticed the ferrule is there at the throat area but it still don't look right. I'll have to learn how to chill out more, Ooow!. :pint:
There's those who know,
and there's those who think they know,
and there's those who just have'nt got a fecking Clue.
Kevin L. Rietmann
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Post by Kevin L. Rietmann »

Here is another email from the seller:

"Hi Kevin
I have called the CITES department via the UK Customs and Excise to be told that antiques or any item containing ivory come under the rules, it will be impossible to obtain the relevant certificates to export outside the EU. I asked several times if this even covers antiques and the answer was yes.
I have had someone from Canada telling me it is illegal to import ivory there and items containing ivory have been destroyed.
I do not know what the answer to the problem of getting them outside the EU is unless you can pick them up and take them as hand baggage and take the risk of Customs not impounding them!!
Regards.
Mike."

Thank you Customs Nazis. It seems the only solution to buying these overseas is to pick them up in person.
Jim McGuire
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Post by Jim McGuire »

This is a faux concern over real ivory.
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Uilliam
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Post by Uilliam »

This is a loada bollax about the Cites Cert.I sent a set with Ivory and was able to get certification easily enough.(one phone call to get,one form and cost £5)The problem was at the American end but the broker over there finally got them through the customs(US)
Seems to me the reluctance is frae the seller (Ginsberg)who I suspect cannot be bothered or does not want to sell to Americans.
Anyway if ye are daft enough to pay out a fortune for a set just because its old and has been cleaned up without having a scooby how it plays, then a trip to the UK to collect them and get your own Certificate should present no problem,it may be more expensive that way,yes,but whats money in a scenario such as this! :P = $$$ = :roll:
Uilliam
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Joseph E. Smith
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Post by Joseph E. Smith »

Uilliam: "The problem was at the American end but the broker over there finally got them through the customs(US)"
========================================

I have never had to go through this sort of thing. Is it a pretty typical scenario when shipping ivory to the US?
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Dionys
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Post by Dionys »

Brokers are highly suggested by the US Govt for items worth over (I think) $1000. I don't remember for certain if this is the break-point, but it's somewhere around there. Could be up to $2000. Anyhow, I've bought from overseas items costing more than the limit and had no problems. I also know people who have bought items with Ivory from overseas with no CITES certificate and gotten them just fine.

Personally, though, I would not spend a great deal of money on something and then take the chance that customs may or may not seize it. Frankly the intelligence of Customs agents seems to leave a lot to be desired. When I received my A. Donax from Medir in Spain, customs claimed that my large box was filled with Music Boxes worth thousands of dollars rather than Cane worth hundreds. It made me wonder if they even bothered opening the box to look at it, because I'm pretty certain cane tubes look nothing like music boxes. It could just be me, though.

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Uilliam
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Post by Uilliam »

Joseph.I have no idea if it is typical,but legally ye are required to have the certificate(which is easy enought to get).
The broker is meant to smooth everything out with the customs people (thats what they are paid for).But if you are seriously considering buying this,then why don't ye just buy it,ask Ginsberg to hang on to it and you get the certificate then come across and collect(or as your spending a fortune anyways you could get a courier to do it for you,)thats where I come in .For a small fee plus travel expenses I could collect it for you from Wales and bring it over to you.Anyways when youve bought the set let me know and we can fix a deal.This offer is open to any potential buyers worldwide by the way.....................................
(I can still think of better ways of spending my money) :boggle:
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Jim McGuire
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Post by Jim McGuire »

The paperwork supplied by the Sender is the best place to concentrate the effort. Brokers only use the Commercial Invoice supplied by the Sender. That document should heavily emphasize antique bagpipes, including its vintage.
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Joseph E. Smith
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Post by Joseph E. Smith »

Uilliam wrote: "But if you are seriously considering buying this..."
==========================================

No, I am with you on this, I'd have to know a lot more about its history and playability before I would even consider shelling out a small fortune for it... and unfortunately, a small fortune I do not have.

It would be a cool thing to have for its historical value, but not at the price it is going for...especially if it is unplayable.

I was just curious, should I entertain the idea of having a set made in Eire, just what kind of a hassle I may have to go through to get it. Currently I am committed to a maker here in the states for a chanter, and I will more than likely fill out the rest of the set by him when I have the cash to throw at it.

Thanks for the info.
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Jim McGuire
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Post by Jim McGuire »

There are no import duties for bagpipes to the United States.
Dionys
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Post by Dionys »

No customs duty if you import bagpipes. Don't worry about buying from overseas in regards to customs. Unless there is Ivory on your new set. Then (again) you'd need a CITES certificate, unless it's something like fossilized walrus ivory or mastadon ivory, &c.

Dionys

(Added "Duty" :) Ooops!)
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

Kevin L. Rietmann wrote:Actually that's a key for obtaining e''', in the third octave. The Cnat key being fitted on the side of the chanter is something I've never seen before. Bb is in the back, great for lots of grim tunes.
Thanks Kev, I realized afterwards that the thumbhole wasn't lined up with the key hole, but wasn't sure if it was for E in the second octave or third. It might work for the second too, depending on lower finger positions.
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