Every now and then I hear a song - not really "traditional" but written by contemporary artists like Paddy Keenan or Davy Spillane - that I think is just so great that it's worth actually hacking through and writing out music for, besides just learning it by ear. It's harder to forget something when you've got it down on paper...
Anyways, I'm all about sharing these with everyone, but at the same time I don't want to step on any toes by posting abc's of songs attributed to anybody, if you know what I mean...
Of course, I don't make any money off of it, or get ANYTHING from doing it, other than the record of a good tune.
At the same time, I always feel a little hesitation before posting them out of respect for the composers...
So I'd like to know what you all think about it. I'll just give it a yes/no to get the overall feeling, but feel free to add any comments.
-Joey
Poll: Posting Transcriptions
-
djm
- Posts: 17853
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:47 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Canadia
- Contact:
There is such a thing as "courtesy". I would suggest the best thing to do is to e-mail the composer, tell them what you're up to and ask if they object. You should at least make an attempt to get through to them, though this might not ultimately be possible. I would guess that the market for this stuff is so minimal as to not be a great blow financially, but at least the composer should be given enough respect as to ask their permission.
I agree that learning a tune by ear well enough to put it into abc is an excellent way to train one's self as well as to learn the tune.
djm
I agree that learning a tune by ear well enough to put it into abc is an excellent way to train one's self as well as to learn the tune.
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
-
Jim McGuire
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:43 pm
Doesn't www.thesession.org do just that?
Last edited by Jim McGuire on Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Nanohedron
- Moderatorer
- Posts: 38239
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Been a fluter, citternist, and uilleann piper; committed now to the way of the harp.
Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
I'm with djm on this. If a musical work is copyrighted, and the composer is still with us (or the publisher still holds the copyright), legally permission --at least-- is required in distribution or performance of it if you're not the composer. This is as memory serves me..."express written consent", and all that. Arguments could be made that transcripts of copyrighted material fall within those parameters. Posting transcripts of copyrighted works to a broad public venue like this one might incur legal repercussions depending on how rabid some publishers' law-dogs are. All fear of legal imbroglios aside, courtesy should motivate one; it's the classy thing to do.
Private distribution of transcripts is something else altogether.
Private distribution of transcripts is something else altogether.
-
djm
- Posts: 17853
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:47 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Canadia
- Contact:
The legal term to escape immolation is, "for educational purposes only". Please note that I'm not too concerned if the composer is dead, and f*** the publisher, but if the tune is not traditional, and you know the composer is still alive, and you know you can reach the composer, its just good manners to ask (whether or not you're going to print it anyways ). 
djm
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
-
fancypiper
- Posts: 2162
- Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:08 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 12
- Location: Sparta NC
- Contact:
Usually if there is a royalty involved, like for the tune writen for the "Civil War" series on PBS, it's like 7 cents each CD if you profit from it by selling them.
That is one consideration of our CDs, but we did make one mistake on our first cd and recorded an excercise written for the GHB what we learned as the "Jug of Slugs", but we "Irishify" it with variations, speed, etc. but it's recognisble by it's real name by some people.
We just called it "The Jigosity" and stuck a 3 part double jig, a 5 part slip jig into the 4 part "Jug of Slugs".
We need to sneak a slide into that set somtime....
Btw, I didn't say this. This post is a lie.
That is one consideration of our CDs, but we did make one mistake on our first cd and recorded an excercise written for the GHB what we learned as the "Jug of Slugs", but we "Irishify" it with variations, speed, etc. but it's recognisble by it's real name by some people.
We just called it "The Jigosity" and stuck a 3 part double jig, a 5 part slip jig into the 4 part "Jug of Slugs".
We need to sneak a slide into that set somtime....
Btw, I didn't say this. This post is a lie.
-
Jim McGuire
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:43 pm
As far as rights, it's to guarantee the artist product the right to make their own deal. In this arena, it's all about the money.
Traditional music causes a problem. With so many tunes already published and played elsewhere, they effectively are in the public domain. So, when a movie or play, etc, need music where the artist is going to want a royalty stream, they need to and do compose music for the event. That is copyrightable and theirs forever. Flatley thought that all the tunes in LORD OF THE DANCE were traditional and royalty-free. Dave Richardson's Calliope House jig got in there. Ca-ching for Dave as he had to sue but would successfully collect for his tune in the Flatley video that sold millions.
Verbal deals don't cut it either, so get it in writing.
With the Internet, though, all bets are off as information (legal and illegal) is transmitted with light speed. The big musical companies are fighting for their lives over musical copying.
Traditional music causes a problem. With so many tunes already published and played elsewhere, they effectively are in the public domain. So, when a movie or play, etc, need music where the artist is going to want a royalty stream, they need to and do compose music for the event. That is copyrightable and theirs forever. Flatley thought that all the tunes in LORD OF THE DANCE were traditional and royalty-free. Dave Richardson's Calliope House jig got in there. Ca-ching for Dave as he had to sue but would successfully collect for his tune in the Flatley video that sold millions.
Verbal deals don't cut it either, so get it in writing.
With the Internet, though, all bets are off as information (legal and illegal) is transmitted with light speed. The big musical companies are fighting for their lives over musical copying.
-
Nanohedron
- Moderatorer
- Posts: 38239
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Been a fluter, citternist, and uilleann piper; committed now to the way of the harp.
Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
-
Jim McGuire
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:43 pm
Again the problem is money. If your were to claim 'educational purpose' and charge money for it, the artist wants money. Thus, the problem with artists have with the internet, for a tiny amount of money and no distribution issues, someone can 'publish' something on the net and get away with it. Frustrating for the artist would be something given away that they could charge for, yet the internet publisher is not charging for it. No deep pockets to sue; expensive and probably fruitless to pay a lawyer to initiate an action.
-
djm
- Posts: 17853
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:47 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Canadia
- Contact:
Jim, please check the original poster's question. This is not about posting ABCs for money. The Session also posts ABCs for free. The question was about posting ABCs for free but the composer is known and still living.
A lot goes on on the 'Net that isn't quite kosher, and I'm sure if someone wanted to pursue litigation they could, but it would probably cost them more in legal fees than they would get from someone posting an ABC for free on a discussion board.
djm
A lot goes on on the 'Net that isn't quite kosher, and I'm sure if someone wanted to pursue litigation they could, but it would probably cost them more in legal fees than they would get from someone posting an ABC for free on a discussion board.
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
-
Jim McGuire
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:43 pm
-
joey_schu
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- Contact:
I should add that I did in fact send an email to Paddy Keenan (or at least to the contact address on his website) a few days ago asking if he had objections to posting the transcription here. Haven't heard back from him, so either he's not checking his emails, or he's not too concerned about it.
Who says that in the case of this board posting transcriptions ISN'T for "educational purposes?" In fact (being perfectly honest here), when I leave a tune here for everyone, that's EXACTLY what my motivation is. So I don't think that here we should treat that as such a lame excuse, you know? I think it's the perfect description of what we're all about (ok, speaking for myself at least). The people here have been my ONLY source of education on the uilleann pipes - I'm happy that this community can do that for people...
Just my thoughts...
Who says that in the case of this board posting transcriptions ISN'T for "educational purposes?" In fact (being perfectly honest here), when I leave a tune here for everyone, that's EXACTLY what my motivation is. So I don't think that here we should treat that as such a lame excuse, you know? I think it's the perfect description of what we're all about (ok, speaking for myself at least). The people here have been my ONLY source of education on the uilleann pipes - I'm happy that this community can do that for people...
Just my thoughts...