Vanishing Bass Regulators

[ennischanter]

I will also have to agree, the bands such as Planxty, Chieftains, Bothy Band, Spillane, etc... And widespread availability and volume of concert D pipes have made them much more widely available to many folk around the world. I can vouch for the power of a wide bore pipe when in the hands of a skilled player. Through their mastery, O'Flynn and Moloney could conjure special sounds from their pipes that resonated with an intensity that could capture any audience.

But still, in my opinion, there is nothing quite like the sound of flat pipes unaccompanied. The distinct, haunting, dark, and woody tone can instantly create a captivating and serene ambience. I find it to be an incredibly powerful sound that speaks to the you. This is why, in the uilleann pipering context, I prefer solo recordings featuring primarily flat sets; it really allows me to connect with the music in a special way. On top of that, I think it’s important for people to experience this type of music so they can better understand its beauty, power, authenticity, and the pure blood sweat and tears that comes along with it. I am of course shamelessly biased as I play a flat chanter, and have a flat set on order.

When listening to small ensembles, I certainly appreciate the added volume and brightness of wide bore concert D pipes. But for me, solo unaccompanied recordings and performances are always going to be my preference when it comes to taking advantage of acoustic possibilities afforded by uilleann pipes, especially flat sets. Of course though, it's a lonely world out there for those who choose to listen to and perform solo, but I'm starting to realize that this may not be the worst thing. There is something peaceful and beautiful about having a tiny, dedicated audience that appreciates your work in its quiet solitude-- of course it is a delicate balance of all things that must be maintained for it not to die out and fade away.

[FlaminGalah]

I will also have to agree, the bands such as Planxty, Chieftains, Bothy Band, Spillane, etc... And widespread availability and volume of concert D pipes have made them much more widely available to many folk around the world. I can vouch for the power of a wide bore pipe when in the hands of a skilled player. Through their mastery, O'Flynn and Moloney could conjure special sounds from their pipes that resonated with an intensity that could capture any audience.

But still, in my opinion, there is nothing quite like the sound of flat pipes unaccompanied. The distinct, haunting, dark, and woody tone can instantly create a captivating and serene ambience. I find it to be an incredibly powerful sound that speaks to the you. This is why, in the uilleann pipering context, I prefer solo recordings featuring primarily flat sets; it really allows me to connect with the music in a special way. On top of that, I think it’s important for people to experience this type of music so they can better understand its beauty, power, authenticity, and the pure blood sweat and tears that comes along with it. I am of course shamelessly biased as I play a flat chanter, and have a flat set on order.

When listening to small ensembles, I certainly appreciate the added volume and brightness of wide bore concert D pipes. But for me, solo unaccompanied recordings and performances are always going to be my preference when it comes to taking advantage of acoustic possibilities afforded by uilleann pipes, especially flat sets. Of course though, it's a lonely world out there for those who choose to listen to and perform solo, but I'm starting to realize that this may not be the worst thing. There is something peaceful and beautiful about having a tiny, dedicated audience that appreciates your work in its quiet solitude-- of course it is a delicate balance of all things that must be maintained for it not to die out and fade away.

Isn't it the case that Liam O'Flynn's set of pipes was originally ordered by Sean Reid from Leo Rowsome with the particular instruction to make it sound as close to a flat set as possible whilst preserving the volume and pitch of concert D?

[rorybbellows]

The only disadvantage with WBCP,if you can call it that , is that the skill level needed to make them sound good is far higher than that of flat sets. Maybe the future of flat sets is that mediocre players are encouraged or maybe realize for themselves to go flat.

RORY

[elbowmusic]

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[elbowmusic]

So niche to be nonexistent. Other factors, would NPU be able to exist for a very limited number of pipers ? Would pipemakers be able to make a living from a very limited number of pipers ? How many pipers start on concert pitch sets and if they weren't there might not start at all ? How many pipers who play flat sets only do so as their second instrument ? How many of the bands of the seventies would not have been so successful if they didn't have a piper ?
Rhetorical questions I know , but you get the point.

RORY

Do you think it would be worse than where Northumbrian pipes are these days? That seems like an imperfect but relevant counterfactual. They too are quite complex to make, and traditionally play in their own key not very amenable to other instruments. They are a bit simpler and a bit cheaper to buy, as it happens, but are still expensive and fiddly compared to GHBs. And they made it through. I think flat pipes would have been in a similar place (which is sort of where they are now, as it happens!) Traditionally oriented, played by a dedicated but small group of people, and with a small list of makers supplying them. The NSPs made it through to the internet age despite the lack of big-hit bands carrying them.

Now, do I think that would be better? NO. Where I agree with Rory is that the widespread dissemination of Irish piping through the bands, through the session compatibility of D sets, through their accessibility and commercial relevance, mean that we have a bigger, wider community to draw from, and that is a good thing.

I just talked to an NSP player yesterday, coincidentally. They told me there are basically 4(ish) NSP makers. Two are looking to retire soon and 2 make other pipes as well. Basically zero full time makers.

[ennischanter]

Isn't it the case that Liam O'Flynn's set of pipes was originally ordered by Sean Reid from Leo Rowsome with the particular instruction to make it sound as close to a flat set as possible whilst preserving the volume and pitch of concert D?

I have heard that yes, very interesting.

Also very cool how one could request certain tonal qualities from a renowned maker like that. I am sure it is still possible, of course it likely requires a lot of patience, time, and effort.

[rorybbellows]

Isn't it the case that Liam O'Flynn's set of pipes was originally ordered by Sean Reid from Leo Rowsome with the particular instruction to make it sound as close to a flat set as possible whilst preserving the volume and pitch of concert D?

Thankfully the instructions weren't fulfilled, to my mind the O'Flynn Rowsome set is the quintessential WBCP sound and is thankfully nothing like a flat set .
RORY

[FlaminGalah]

Isn't it the case that Liam O'Flynn's set of pipes was originally ordered by Sean Reid from Leo Rowsome with the particular instruction to make it sound as close to a flat set as possible whilst preserving the volume and pitch of concert D?

Thankfully the instructions weren't fulfilled, to my mind the O'Flynn Rowsome set is the quintessential WBCP sound and is thankfully nothing like a flat set .
RORY

Really? It is an amazing sounding chanter. Perhaps the best D ever. But to my mind it DOESNT sound quite like the quintessential WBCP, there is something totally unique to it, a reedy, vocal quality quite unlike the best other D chanters. And that’s exactly what makes it great. And I think that does come from a drop of flat-chanter DNA in the mix.

[Mr.Gumby]

I don't think it was ever intended to sound like a flat set. Reid had specifications with regards to, for example, the drones etc. He was specific about what he liked though. At some point I had a student who had a Willie Rowsome set with a Leo chanter that was hand picked for the set by Reid (the original Willie chanter was discarded). That chanter was capable of sounding exactly like Flynn's, when handled in a specific way.

Note that last bit. And compare the sound Willie Clancy got off ithe Reid set when he had it. Don't ever underestimate what the driver brings to the equation (or the way an instrument is reeded).

[FlaminGalah]

I don't think it was ever intended to sound like a flat set. Reid had specifications with regards to, for example, the drones etc. He was specific about what he liked though. At some point I had a student who had a Willie Rowsome set with a Leo chanter that was hand picked for the set by Reid (the original Willie chanter was discarded). That chanter was capable of sounding exactly like Flynn's, when handled in a specific way.

Note that last bit. And compare the sound Willie Clancy got off it when he had it. Don't ever underestimate what the driver brings to the equation (or the way an instrument is reeded).

By “handled” do you mean reeding, or pressure, or fingering, or something else?

[rorybbellows]

I've heard some BK chanters that sound very close to the Rowsome chanter .
I must admit I got it totally wrong regarding Colm Broderick taking on the set after Liam , I was skeptical about his ability to carry the weight of history attached to the set ,but he really has made it his own. A really fantastic piper.

RORY

[Mr.Gumby]

By “handled” do you mean reeding, or pressure, or fingering, or something else?

All of that. As I said, listen to Clancy playing the Reid set.

A bit over twenty years ago a friend sent me a set of recordings of a piping competition at the Oireachtas from 1963 or thereabouts. What struck me was that pipers sounded distinctly different from pipers who started learning from the 1970s onward. The aesthetic, the soundscape, was quite different. Take from that what you want.

Liam O Flynn developed a highly personal sound that left quite the imprint on pipers who came after him.

[ennischanter]

Certainly.

I’d say O’Flynn, Ennis, Moloney (and perhaps a few others) had a very recognizable style of playing, you can listen to a recording and immediately tell who you are listening to without having to look up any information on said track.

There is one player, I don’t remember his name, he went by “errantelbows” and had a Nakatsui concert D pipe and played in the classic “Gentry/Parlour style” although I much prefer Flat pipes, he produced an incredible tone out of his concert chanter.

I do have a Morrison D chanter on the way along with my C sharp set, I’ll see what it can do. I’ll probably use it for practice mostly or if I wish to play with another musician

[FlaminGalah]

By “handled” do you mean reeding, or pressure, or fingering, or something else?

All of that. As I said, listen to Clancy playing the Reid set.

A bit over twenty years ago a friend sent me a set of recordings of a piping competition at the Oireachtas from 1963 or thereabouts. What struck me was that pipers sounded distinctly different from pipers who started learning from the 1970s onward. The aesthetic, the soundscape, was quite different. Take from that what you want.

Liam O Flynn developed a highly personal sound that left quite the imprint on pipers who came after him.

See I feel like even from Clancy, I hear THAT chanter despite. The style is definitely different, but there is a sound, an ineffable sound, in the mid range of the lower octave, that comes through regardless of whose fingers are on the holes. I can hear it from Colm as well.

That said, I completely and thoroughly agree that there has been a big change in soundscape between pipers of old and pipers post 70s (at least as far as recordings reveal- I’m too young to have any first hand knowledge of the before times).
I wonder how much of that has come from advances (or rediscoveries) in reedmaking- modern players seem to sound a bit more in tune with conventional scales, and a bit more “open” sounding, not in Geoff’s reedy vs flute-like way (which is a Union vs Uilleann pipes thing, if you take that distinction), but more in a less constrained, less “choked off” way. (That sounds critical- it’s not, I just can’t find other words to describe the sort of halting, constricted character I hear in older recordings).

[ennischanter]

See I feel like even from Clancy, I hear THAT chanter despite. The style is definitely different, but there is a sound, an ineffable sound, in the mid range of the lower octave, that comes through regardless of whose fingers are on the holes. I can hear it from Colm as well.

That said, I completely and thoroughly agree that there has been a big change in soundscape between pipers of old and pipers post 70s (at least as far as recordings reveal- I’m too young to have any first hand knowledge of the before times).
I wonder how much of that has come from advances (or rediscoveries) in reedmaking- modern players seem to sound a bit more in tune with conventional scales, and a bit more “open” sounding, not in Geoff’s reedy vs flute-like way (which is a Union vs Uilleann pipes thing, if you take that distinction), but more in a less constrained, less “choked off” way. (That sounds critical- it’s not, I just can’t find other words to describe the sort of halting, constricted character I hear in older recordings).

I hear it too, for me it's the back D, has a very distinctive ring to it. I wonder if Colm plays the same Rowsome reed that Liam had? Apparently it is really large in size and was made in the late '60's, there's specs for it online somewhere I believe.


Also I think I know what you are saying, that many modern players play in a more open style? As opposed to the tight "pippity poppity" style? Hmmm maybe? There are some good young tight players, Joe Byrne plays in a very nice tight style, very enjoyable to listen to.



All of this is interesting food for thought too, Ennis's chanter has a very different sound today than when it was in Ennis's hands. There was talk about how differently it was reeded in Ennis's time (There was some work done on it too), I talked about, but Mr. Gumby talks of how, in small fleeting moments the chanter was still able to make "that" sound. It's very interesting, although I never heard the Coyne in person, I felt like I was able to coax "that" sound out of my C sharp chanter at certain fleeting moments (which is apparently based off of an Egan C chanter raised up in pitch), specifically that haunting, dark, woody Bottom D. It didn't last long, eventually it would brighten up giving me its usual bottom D sound, which is just a hair brighter in tone. But I also got the second octave to give me a similar sound. Interestingly enough I do have a C sharp Rogge full set on order, which is based off said Coyne, of course it will be it's own sound, and will be a Rogge C sharp, but I also wonder if I could once again coax that sound out of them. Hypothetically if I were to give it to Ennis to play, I wonder how many people would tell if it was his old Coyne or the Rogge, aside from obvious pitch differences....