Vanishing Bass Regulators

A forum about Uilleann (Irish) pipes and the surly people who play them.
FlaminGalah
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by FlaminGalah »

ennischanter wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 5:40 pm
FlaminGalah wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 4:33 pm


See I feel like even from Clancy, I hear THAT chanter despite. The style is definitely different, but there is a sound, an ineffable sound, in the mid range of the lower octave, that comes through regardless of whose fingers are on the holes. I can hear it from Colm as well.

That said, I completely and thoroughly agree that there has been a big change in soundscape between pipers of old and pipers post 70s (at least as far as recordings reveal- I’m too young to have any first hand knowledge of the before times).
I wonder how much of that has come from advances (or rediscoveries) in reedmaking- modern players seem to sound a bit more in tune with conventional scales, and a bit more “open” sounding, not in Geoff’s reedy vs flute-like way (which is a Union vs Uilleann pipes thing, if you take that distinction), but more in a less constrained, less “choked off” way. (That sounds critical- it’s not, I just can’t find other words to describe the sort of halting, constricted character I hear in older recordings).
I hear it too, for me it's the back D, has a very distinctive ring to it. I wonder if Colm plays the same Rowsome reed that Liam had? Apparently it is really large in size and was made in the late '60's, there's specs for it online somewhere I believe.


Also I think I know what you are saying, that many modern players play in a more open style? As opposed to the tight "pippity poppity" style? Hmmm maybe? There are some good young tight players, Joe Byrne plays in a very nice tight style, very enjoyable to listen to.



All of this is interesting food for thought too, Ennis's chanter has a very different sound today than when it was in Ennis's hands. There was talk about how differently it was reeded in Ennis's time (There was some work done on it too), I talked about, but Mr. Gumby talks of how, in small fleeting moments the chanter was still able to make "that" sound. It's very interesting, although I never heard the Coyne in person, I felt like I was able to coax "that" sound out of my C sharp chanter at certain fleeting moments (which is apparently based off of an Egan C chanter raised up in pitch), specifically that haunting, dark, woody Bottom D. It didn't last long, eventually it would brighten up giving me its usual bottom D sound, which is just a hair brighter in tone. But I also got the second octave to give me a similar sound. Interestingly enough I do have a C sharp Rogge full set on order, which is based off said Coyne, of course it will be it's own sound, and will be a Rogge C sharp, but I also wonder if I could once again coax that sound out of them. Hypothetically if I were to give it to Ennis to play, I wonder how many people would tell if it was his old Coyne or the Rogge, aside from obvious pitch differences....
The difference with Ennis of course is that his chanter is well documented to have been, let’s say ‘troublesome’- with challenging notes, tuning issues, and (ahem) bore problems that have since been addressed (not trying to open that can of bees now). Ennis was playing virtuosically through an instrument with problems, which resulted in a very distinct sound. O’Flynn, as far as I know, basically always had a well functioning instrument (though I stand to be corrected).
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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by Mr.Gumby »

I am not so sure the Ennis chanter was (always) troublesome or that it would have been to Ennis.

And to underline my point about the driver's influence, there's Flynn saying Ennis sounded exactly like Ennus when playing the Reid set. 'There it was, the unmistakable Ennis sound'.
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FlaminGalah
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by FlaminGalah »

Mr.Gumby wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:20 am I am not so sure the Ennis chanter was (always) troublesome or that it would have been to Ennis.

And to underline my point about the driver's influence, there's Flynn saying Ennis sounded exactly like Ennus when playing the Reid set. 'There it was, the unmistakable Ennis sound'.
I agree that it wouldn’t have been troublesome to him- he of course knew everything there was to know about that chanter, and grew up with that set. What I mean is that it is definitely an idiosyncratic chanter, as evidenced by the troublesome-ness it poses to very good players unfamiliar with it (as they discuss in the 5 pipers video). What I mean is that part of his sound is the mixture of his undoubted style (which as you say, comes through on any instrument) together with a very distinctive instrument that now doubt had its influence in his stylistic choices. For example, I believe that chanter is (was, before modification?) known to have a bottom D prone to issues, which Ennis probably easily handled through tasteful choices of ornament etc, like his very distinctive sounding cran.
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by Mr.Gumby »

It won't have been always troublesome. If you listen to the early recordings the set was glorious, going extremely well.
Work was done on it during the sixties by a reedmaker or so I was told, who altered the chanter.

But trying the set when you don't know it the main issue is that the chanter was originally a left handed one and on top of that the back d was moved/enlarged. Getting to grips with that, finding the holes is troublesome, especially if you ate doing it in a room full of pipers with expectations. Been there a few times over the years and won't recommend it.
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ennischanter
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by ennischanter »

FlaminGalah wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:51 am , like his very distinctive sounding cran.
I slowed some recordings down, it sounds like he cuts mostly with the A finger. In some recordings It sounds it’s ADAA, sometimes, or AFDAA (On the Lark’s March)

I’ve listened to another piper, Sean McAloon, who also cuts with the A finger, “AAAA” in some tracks.

You are right it gives a very distinctive sound, I try to emulate that sound by doing the exact same cuts, I love the sound.
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by rorybbellows »

As good as Seamus Ennis was I don't think he inspired as many people to take up the pipes as did the later concert pitch playing pipers. Liam of course really got the ball rolling but I think Davy Spillane was responsible for more people taking up the pipes than any other piper, especially internationally. Nearly two and a half million views for the river dance solo, that speaks for itself.
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ennischanter
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by ennischanter »

Of course, I wouldn't dispute that. Planxty, Chieftains, Spillane, Keenan, Rigler , etc... all made the pipes accessible. Still doesn't change the fact that Ennis was immensely important in the piping world. But I get what you're saying.


Interestingly enough, on some of the Titanic soundtracks, it sounds like Rigler is playing a B flat chanter, take what you will from that.

Nevertheless, I do think concert and flat sets both have their place in the up world, I just often feel that Flat sets are greatly underappreciated or underrepresented, as a flat set player I feel an obligation to share with people the beauty that a flat set can bring to the table, as they are wonderful instruments that possess eerie, haunting qualities. Even in the fastest and most upbeat of music, a fine set of flat pipes always have a melancholic, days gone by, longing vibe to them that is truly wonderful and powerful IMHO.

I think it is good to have both types of pipes in one's possession, if they can afford it of course! I took that one person's advice, I have a flat set on the way, and a D chanter as well.
Last edited by ennischanter on Sun May 28, 2023 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by rorybbellows »

Yes I agree. Just pointing out the importance of WBCP in responce to the bashing they take by certain individuals who seem to do so at every opportunity.

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FlaminGalah
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Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by FlaminGalah »

rorybbellows wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 2:01 am Yes I agree. Just pointing out the importance of WBCP in responce to the bashing they take by certain individuals who seem to do so at every opportunity.

RORY
I’m definitely in the “both” camp! And I’d gladly play both if my flat set chanter ever worked! But Rory you are no doubt right that WBCP carries the community, then and now. Flat is by necessity niche, insofar as many excellent flat sets play a fair bit off *any* standard pitch tuning. By definition an instrument for the solo player. The standardisation of flat keys is a welcome thing for those wanting to play with others, but it’s still not going to get them into the next generation of world famous bands…
ennischanter
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Tell us something.: If you flush your toilet 7 times whilst lilting "The Bucks of Oranmore", an apparition of one of the great pipers of old will appear in the mirror, you will be blessed with good reeds, but cursed with bad bags and bellows.
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Vanishing Bass Regulators

Post by ennischanter »

I would go so far as to say I think flat pipes truly shine their best when they are on their own (Though I have heard some duo's with a fiddle which sound nice). They are pretty quiet anyways, but again, I think they are better suited for more intimate settings, like at someone's home or when most everyone has packed their things and left, with maybe one musician at the most.


But if one wishes to play in a bigger session, or regularly play at said gatherings then yes I would agree a WBCP would be the go to.
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