F# far to sharp

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Donegal Tom
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F# far to sharp

Post by Donegal Tom »

Hi fellow pipers,

I am wondering if someone has ever experienced a F# note which is far to sharp.
In fact it is so sharp that even taping can not bring it down.

Just some background information how i ended up here:

I had an A note that was far to flat.
So i decided to sink the reed into the chanter so that this one is ok and maybe some taping on other notes.
That worked perfect for the top hand.
I had to tape the G and E a little bit, too.
Result : All is perfect to the drones except this crazy F#

Any ideas ?
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rorybbellows
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by rorybbellows »

Doesn't Dave Quinn call that part of the chanter the zombie zone due to its lack of response to things like taping or rushing and such. Holes in the wrong place.
RORY
Ps maybe a different reed configuration.
I'm Spartacus .
Donegal Tom
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by Donegal Tom »

rorybbellows wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:53 pm Doesn't Dave Quinn call that part of the chanter the zombie zone due to its lack of response to things like taping or rushing and such. Holes in the wrong place.
RORY
Ps maybe a different reed configuration.
Thanks Rory.
Wow, the zombie zone, that sounds scary :)
geoff wooff
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by geoff wooff »

Tom,
if your ' too sharp F#' was the only problem I would suggest the tone hole is too small BUT your explaination of how you tried to cure the flat A suggests ' you should not start from here' . Put everything back where it was and start again. decide if the flat A is in both octaves when everything else is close to correct.
Moving the reed in and out of a chanter is never a good idea, There is an ideal position for the reed and as the staple becomes part of the bore, shifting it is always going to throw up annomalies.
Dealing with the flat A may be a staple issue ; diameter, depth of insertion into the reed head or elevation of the staple eye. Lots of possibilites.
Donegal Tom
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by Donegal Tom »

geoff wooff wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:54 am Tom,
if your ' too sharp F#' was the only problem I would suggest the tone hole is too small BUT your explaination of how you tried to cure the flat A suggests ' you should not start from here' . Put everything back where it was and start again. decide if the flat A is in both octaves when everything else is close to correct.
Moving the reed in and out of a chanter is never a good idea, There is an ideal position for the reed and as the staple becomes part of the bore, shifting it is always going to throw up annomalies.
Dealing with the flat A may be a staple issue ; diameter, depth of insertion into the reed head or elevation of the staple eye. Lots of possibilites.
Thanks a lot Geoff,
I was thinking the same this morning, putting it back to the flat A and work from there while also using different reeds.
I will keep you updated here.
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by Seanie »

I am constantly amazed that we have one of the greatest living pipemakers on here and freely disseminating piping information to the uilleann playing members of this forum.

I am extremely grateful for all the time and effort that you have given in order to answer the many questions posed here. I have also benefitted from all the answers that you have given here.

Thanks Geoff for all your efforts and help here.

John
geoff wooff
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by geoff wooff »

John,
some could see me as a one eyed monster... Perhaps I see myself that way and thus I have to constantly hold back from taking a "NO !! Not that way " attitude. There are more ways than my own , I am sure.
Thankyou for your supportive response.
Geoff.
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by geoff wooff »

Donegal Tom wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:22 am


Thanks a lot Geoff,
I was thinking the same this morning, putting it back to the flat A and work from there while also using different reeds.
I will keep you updated here.
I always start by asking myself : "Has this chanter worked correctly in the past ?" If the answer is YES then proceed to find a reed that will... If NO then seek a physical solution or decide what might be the cause.....

good luck,
Geoff.
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by Donegal Tom »

geoff wooff wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:43 am

I always start by asking myself : "Has this chanter worked correctly in the past ?" If the answer is YES then proceed to find a reed that will... If NO then seek a physical solution or decide what might be the cause.....

good luck,
Geoff.
Thanks a lot. Here is a brief update:
I have been told, that the chanter was correct before. That's all i can tell. I received it with the Flat A and to sharp F#.
So , i went back to where i started, with the A to flat.
I thought the F# was okay, but it wasn't. It's still to sharp. When i play it completely opent it's spot on, but somehow i don't want it this way.
So i keep testing different reeds.
Actually i am wondering, is there an explanation why the F# can't be taped ?
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Fergmaun
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by Fergmaun »

Can you take photos of chanter and who is the makers name.

Cheers

Ferg
Fergus Maunsell
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Ireland

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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by rorybbellows »

As far as I can gather alot of woodwind instrument making knowledge is empirical and technical explanations of the problematic idiosyncrasies of the f# hole are going to be so complicated, it's probably beyond us regular Joe's. My guess would be that the size of the hole and its position in relation to the bore diameter along with other doobry whatsits is the answer.
RORY
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Donegal Tom
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by Donegal Tom »

rorybbellows wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:51 am As far as I can gather alot of woodwind instrument making knowledge is empirical and technical explanations of the problematic idiosyncrasies of the f# hole are going to be so complicated, it's probably beyond us regular Joe's. My guess would be that the size of the hole and its position in relation to the bore diameter along with other doobry whatsits is the answer.
RORY
Thanks Rory, it seems to be difficult...
Donegal Tom
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by Donegal Tom »

Fergmaun wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:49 am Can you take photos of chanter and who is the makers name.

Cheers

Ferg
Hi Ferg,

It's a Fred Morrison chanter.
Here are two photos.

Image
Image

Thomas
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by GreenWood »

I don't have experience with pipes, only flutes. That made clear, I would try infilling the f# under the tape, say with blutac or wax. The depth of the tonehole makes a lot of difference, and taped is only as thick as the tape . Just taping might also not make much difference because firstly pitch change needs greater movement of the tonehole the further down the bore you are. Also possibly because the nearer the foot the more the venting is from bore end compared to the tonehole. It is an easy idea to try out anyway, and if that works then a more permanent infill could be used (obviously one that does not damage the chanter and that is easy enough to remove).
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Re: F# far to sharp

Post by geoff wooff »

Donegan Tom,
looks like you should contact Martin Gallen , over the border in NI. Martin makes reeds for Fred Morrison and will surely have the solution to your problems.
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