What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

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FlaminGalah
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What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by FlaminGalah »

There seems to be an interesting anthropological/ethnographical story hidden in the universally decried Pakistani pipes. We all know about them and take them as a regrettable fact of life, but I have become interested in how we ended up with this particular, highly specific pariah on our instrument of choice.

So we all more or less know the story behind the Sialkot GHB makers: colonialism, Scottish regiments, and now a (seemingly) thriving interest in GHBs (with, erh, different tuning standards) in the city. Moreover, GHBs do a big trade worldwide, most people seem to be aware of them, and they are comparatively simple to turn on a lathe and to assemble. No need to re-hash all that. It makes perfect sense (commercially) that the Sialkot makers are churning them out to unserious buyers.

What I am interested in here is how we ended up with Pakistani made uilleann pipes, how they have changed over time, and where they are going (bear with me). This is much more mysterious, both because the market is so small for something that obviously required a fair bit of tooling-up in Sialkot, and because to make something even resembling a set of uilleann pipes as they do, they must have had a real set to poke around with at some point.

So, in the early 2000s, when I first became aware of Pakistani-made UPs, there was one choice, and it looked like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144604222308?h ... SwsCliqfXX

We've all seen that picture many times, and the rectangular regulator keys, trumpet bass drone, and unmounted chanter are still, in my head, the "standard" Pakistani pipes. Interestingly, this aesthetic is now rather hard to find, and for a while I understand they weren't making it (a lot of the whops that once carried those regulators and drones listed them as discontinued).

More recently, a new Pakistani half set has turned up, with rather bulbous drones, as here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/255008256992?h ... SwEz1gCqed
These seem available in both "rose"wood and "black"wood and are considerably cheaper than old reliable (above) ever was. They also seem to have switched to some sort of silver-coloured metal from the brass above.

Alongside that, in the last few years, a third model has crept in - in both a simplified "rose"wood version and a more elaborate (but still simpler than the original) "black"wood, at really very low prices, as here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/175226651178?h ... Sw5oVif3uX
and
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255299499127?h ... Sws4RhyW7B

Perhaps most interestingly, the seller of that first one, Rehan's, does seem to be making a try of producing a better product, swapping out the old plastic regulator reeds for cane "chanter" reeds, and sending spares and all that. The prices are so low now that, out of morbid curiosity, I bought a single tenor regulator from him to see what the reeds and workmanship looked like in person. It's roughly made, and even the cane reeds don't work well as they come, but they are a far cry from the GHB practice chanter reeds they used to pass off as UP chanter and reg reeds, and the cane reeds look like UP reeds in terms of size and shape. I suspect a good reedmaker could almost use them as a "blank". He also offered to send more reeds when I told him the first batch didn't work, though I haven't taken him up on it - I mainly wanted to see whether he was a scammer in his own head or would try to help. He tried to help, earnestly, so, experiment over. (Disclaimer - I DO NOT recommend buying from him - my point is this is a very different level of knowledge and attempt from where we were with the Roosebeck's 20 years ago).

Finally and most interestingly is this chanter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/185281157546?h ... SwQ0xh~NjO

This is a recent arrival and is a VERY different looking thing from the old ones. I have no doubt that the same old not-right reamer is being used to make this thing, but the mounts, shape, and key-ing are all suggestive that sometime in the last 5 years or so, they got hold of another chanter, at least, and perhaps a better one.

So this leaves a number of questions:
1) What is the ultimate basis they started this enterprise on? Whose set did they get hold of to make the old Roosebecks based on (at a time when sets were like hens teeth)?
2) Did they buy a set to start their copying? Seems a huge investment (if they could even find one) for the size of market.
3) Did a qualified maker ever try to help them? I sniff some of that. Some of the details seem too close to be a naive copy.
4) Are the original Roosebeck's still being made or are we just seeing new old stock - when did they shift to the three new designs?
5) What is going on with this last chanter - visually, its a world of difference. What has changed? Is there someone driving the attempt at improvement? Seems an odd time for it given the Riverdance/general public uilleann-mania is behind us.

Perhaps you, reader, don't care about these questions - these instruments cannot be played and prey on the unsuspecting, so why give them the time of day. Fair points, but I think there is an interesting economic and cultural story here and I would like to understand it better.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by BigDavy »

Hi FlaminGalah

I bought one of the new version chanters direct from Hakim Din, out of pure curiosity. It was not in black wood but in a yellow wood (no idea what kind of wood it was), and it was much cheaper than your example (£55 - around $65US) delivered direct to my door from Pakistan. I had no expectations whatsoever about it, (bought it for a laugh).
It came with one cane reed and needed the bottom key refitted (the pin had fallen out in transit), but when tested it played in tune all the way up the scale (to my utter amazement). If you can get reliable reeds and Hakim Din maintains quality control, I think it would do as a knockabout chanter.

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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by nwhitmer »

Back in the 1990s I recall hearing that the sets from Pakistan were based on or taken from the look of sets by Kirk Lynch, a pipemaker in Missouri, USA. I dimly recall hearing of Kirk's consternation that these cheap pipes were being confused with his work. Kirk made the cover of An Píobaire Sept 1999 with a set of his. http://3.248.59.149/Data/PIOBAIRE/PIOB0402.PDF

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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by FlaminGalah »

nwhitmer wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:44 am Back in the 1990s I recall hearing that the sets from Pakistan were based on or taken from the look of sets by Kirk Lynch, a pipemaker in Missouri, USA. I dimly recall hearing of Kirk's consternation that these cheap pipes were being confused with his work. Kirk made the cover of An Píobaire Sept 1999 with a set of his. http://3.248.59.149/Data/PIOBAIRE/PIOB0402.PDF

Nick

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Interesting- do you know if they got ahold of one of his sets or were working from photos? It seems they would have needed to have one in person at least for a while to pull off the facsimile as well as they have done.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by m4malious »

IIRC there was a mention somewhere (perhaps here on C&F - perhaps in IPC) more than 10 years ago that the ancestral origin was a Robbie Hughes instrument.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by FlaminGalah »

The Kirk Lynch connection is very convincing - the original Pakistani drones are very clearly copying his turning, bass drone trumpet style, and wide loop on the bass drone turnaround, as here: http://www.kirklynch.com/drones1.htm

I can't find Robbie Hughes pipes that look quite as similar, but perhaps them as well.

So the question is, when did the Pakistani pipes start, and how did they get ahold of either a Lynch or Hughes set to copy, do they still have it, and where have these new, better chanter come from.

I remember someone mentioning in the distant past that one of the good (American?) makers had tried to work with the Pakistani manufacturers to improve them, but couldn't get the quality control sorted.

BigDavy, I'd be interested in how you found the chanter so cheaply - the Hakam Din website doesn't seem to have it the "Widdicombe" one that looks better.

The Widdicombe chanter specifically is a further mystery.

There are a few videos of it being played by someone obviously connected with its marketing. They claim it is made by "Steve Widdicombe in Australia" which is of course straight nonsense, but it is the same chanter as Rehans are selling, at least visually, and attached to a set with the bulbous-pattern Pakistani drones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w6PtugdKeE&t=24s

Widdicombe seemed to be a front for Hakam Din, but were doing instruments with a different look and (seemingly) better level of finish. I remember their Widdicombe site that was independent of Hakam, and claiming to be Australian. They no longer have a web presence though. They also claimed some sort of Chilean connexion, with the maker alleged to be "Luis Alfredo"

Wayback machine has it though: https://web.archive.org/web/20181229113 ... ann-pipes/

Importantly, despite the Chilean and Australian claims, Rehans ebay is selling the Widdicombe chanter and is itself definitely a Hakam Din account, as evidenced when you look at their seller business details. Yet the chap in the youtube videos does look Chilean and can obviously play halfway decently. Perhaps he can make decent reeds and was trying to reed the better Pakistani chanters and upsell them?

The mystery deepens.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by pancelticpiper »

The backstory goes all the way to Victorian times when a Highland regiment was stationed in Sialkot.

Perhaps the pipers needed emergency repair work done. Perhaps the locals loved the sound of the pipes and local makers began meeting the demand. In any case there have been Highland pipe makers in Sialkot for over a century.

The irony is that the Sialkot makers have long offered a range of bagpipe quality ranging from well-crafted African Blackwood pipes fitted with ivory and Sterling Silver mounts all the way down to their very lowest quality (sheesham wood with ugly plastic and alloy mounts) but almost all the Sialkot pipes seen in Europe and the US are the latter, giving people not familiar with the range of Sialkot-made pipes a distorted impression.

Yes there's a huge number of makers in Sialkot cranking out those cheap sheesham-wood pipes.

It's not just bagpipes: Sialkot is the world's biggest producer of kilts, sporrans, kilt jackets, and all the other Highland regalia.

And the Sialkot makers have always made band instruments too: wooden flutes, clarinets, bugles, etc.

With this background in mind it's no wonder that when uilleann pipes surged in popularity in the 1980s and 1990s that it was only a matter of time that the Sialkot makers would try their hand at those.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by BigDavy »

The Hakim Din chanter I bought. It appears to be the older style 3 keyed chanter style, but it has the newer style keys. I checked the Hakim Din website and there is no sign of any chanters with this style of key.

Image

David

P.S. The Widdecombe chanter appears to be available on Amazon US as part of a practice set for $599 plus postage from Pakistan.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by JR »

I have done a fair bit of research in this area so hoping to clear some bits up:

The first Pakistan made pipes I saw were around the late nineties. They were very similar to the work of Robbie Hughes from around that time. I have no idea what the connection was or if Robbie tried to help them out, but they share a lot of the same looks and if you squint you might be fooled. Robbie makes some fantastic pipes and the Pakistan equivalent is very poor. You can spot these with the crazy big drone switch, but the chanters are harder to tell from a photo. Robbie has stamped some of his sets but I don't think all of them.

Kirk Lynch made a set for someone in America around the mid nineties, which ended up being a front for the pipes to make their way to Pakistan. They copied them somewhat aesthetically but with awful sound and incorrect dimensions. These typically have three keys on the chanters and are easier to identify. Kirk would have stamped his pipes too, which helps.

Later, some sets were made based on reamers from Tim Britton, perhaps these are the Widdicome ones?

If anyone wants to see a bit of a non-biased breakdown on one of these and hear a sound sample I did a video a few months back https://youtu.be/dZ5aiJufCRA
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by FlaminGalah »

Thank you Jason!

I've been doing a bit further digging and I think I have figured out the taxonomy of these at least.

There are three different Pakistani Uilleann pipe patterns currently available, plus the "Widdicombe" chanter.

The first, which are indeed a visual knock-off of Robbie Hughes, are made by a company called "Zuma Creationz" in Sialkot. They have been in business since 2014, so I suspect they inherited or took over on the early Hughes knock-offs and continue to do so. Their chanter matches the drones in its Hughes-like curvy profile, and they do not seem to bother with regulators. (Indeed the mainstock only has three holes)

The second, perhaps best known, is the Roosebeck/Ensoul/Mideast model - Lynch knock-off with rectangular, brass keys on the regulators and the three keyed chanter. They also seem to be the originators of the "rosewood" "practice chanter" with the rubber tube mouthpeice.

The third is the Hakam Din basic attempt, seemingly a pared down version of the Roosebeck with simpler turning and teardrop keys. They have a similar "rosewood"/"blackwood" distinction in quality (though are visually different from Roosebeck) and I suspect they are a second-order copy from Roosebeck - possibly with improvements from the Britton chanter reamers. Some Hakam Din regulators preserve the Lynch/Roosebeck rectangular keys, but are distinguishable by being some silver metal not brass.

The Widdicombe chanter appears to be a higher-end Hakam Din attempt, almost certainly with the improved reamers given that some of them do seem playable. This seems to be in line with what PanCelticPiper said about the upper end of the Pakistani GHB production, which tends to stay in Pakistan - ie that they are capable of producing a functional instrument, but not at the prices that bear mass marketing on Ebay in the West. The Widdicombe chanters are not cheap, and it seems that after a bried attempt at marketing them in the West in 2018 or so, they have retreated from that.

I had wondered if there had been a front purchase to get the Lynch set over there. I wonder what became of that set once they copied it!
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by pancelticpiper »

JR wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:01 pm They copied them somewhat aesthetically but with awful sound and incorrect dimensions.
Yes that's their business model!

Around a decade ago I was at the NAMM Show in Anaheim and there was a Sialkot firm with the typical range of Sheesham-wood flutes, clarinets, and Highland pipes and they had "uilleann practice chanters" with a strange blow-hose on top, fitted with ordinary Highland practice chanter plastic reeds.

I tried one, it was horrid. I looked down the bore and the throat seemed awfully narrow. I asked if I could try to fix it and the guy loaned me one to experiment with.

I took it home and ran a long drill bit through the throat and voila the thing played nearly two in-tune octaves!

I returned to NAMM the next day and showed the guy, he seemed delighted. One would think they would bore out all their UP chanters, but who can say. Often what those Sialkot firms do defies logic.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by RenaissanceGuy »

A bit late to the discussion, as I haven't been on this site much in the last year or so... But it is interesting to note that in the mid-1990s, An Píobaire was running adverts for a seller in County Down known as "Clan Uladh." They listed half sets including carrying case for £550. "At Last - Top Quality Pipes at Realistic Prices." But some comments here at C&F in 2004 indicate that pipes made in Pakistan were stamped with the Clan Uladh name to give the impression of authenticity.
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Re: What is the History of Pakistani Uilleann pipes?

Post by rorybbellows »

RenaissanceGuy wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:28 pm They listed half sets including carrying case for £550. "At Last - Top Quality Pipes at Realistic Prices."
Don't think that statement would stand up to scrutiny.

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