MichaelLoos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:41 am
This extra reg had E, Fnat, high C# and "back" D.
High D was the only tone that Marc used frequently, the other tones were a bit troublesome and hard to get in tune.
The paperclip design was of course meant to be reminiscent of the Vandaleur set.
That is pretty much my recollection. I hadn't really watched the video above but it does look like he ditched the fourth reg on that occasion.
The Vandeleur Moloney must have been the inspiration but the various sets claiming the capt Kelly pedigree used that configuration as well, Colgan did at least some of those. I suppose the proper description is 'trombone slide' but we always used to refer to the Williams instrument as the 'paperclip set'.
MichaelLoos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:41 am
This extra reg had E, Fnat, high C# and "back" D.
High D was the only tone that Marc used frequently, the other tones were a bit troublesome and hard to get in tune.
The paperclip design was of course meant to be reminiscent of the Vandaleur set.
That is pretty much my recollection. I hadn't really watched the video above but it does look like he ditched the fourth reg on that occasion.
The Vandeleur Moloney must have been the inspiration but the various sets claiming the capt Kelly pedigree used that configuration as well, Colgan did at least some of those. I suppose the proper description is 'trombone slide' but we always used to refer to the Williams instrument as the 'paperclip set'.
Is the trombone slide to lower the bass reg an octave then or is it just a flourish on the outboard connector for a fourth reg?
Seems awfully bulky given the other ways of getting both smaller and contrabass regs.
In the first video the bass reg has a "normal" reed cap and the extra high reg is next to the tenor. In the second video the bass reg looks to be fed by the trombone thing and the high reg doesn't seem to be there but presumably it could be fitted into the other end of the trombone.
Driftwood wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:30 am
In the first video the bass reg has a "normal" reed cap and the extra high reg is next to the tenor. In the second video the bass reg looks to be fed by the trombone thing and the high reg doesn't seem to be there but presumably it could be fitted into the other end of the trombone.
This getting fierce confusing, as they say.
In the two videos posted Marc Guilloux is playing two very different sets. A big Froment flat set and the D Williams paperclip set.
The Ennis/Coyne use to have a contrabass regulator. There's a photo of it somewhere on the NPU photo archive. It's not clear what became of it, though.
Driftwood wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:30 am
In the first video the bass reg has a "normal" reed cap and the extra high reg is next to the tenor. In the second video the bass reg looks to be fed by the trombone thing and the high reg doesn't seem to be there but presumably it could be fitted into the other end of the trombone.
This getting fierce confusing, as they say.
In the two videos posted Marc Guilloux is playing two very different sets. A big Froment flat set and the D Williams paperclip set.
Yes, the Froment set is straightforward- or perhaps I should call it straightforwardly complicated.
The Williams is mysteriously complicated. The now-absent high reg (shall we call it a soprano?) wouldn’t need an extended bar, and there are much less awkward ways to build a contrabass. So what is the returning section of the paperclip doing?
I can only gues at what the thinking behind the Guilloux/Williams paperclip was but the set it was modelled on or inspired by, the Vandeleur Moloney, has a seriously long contrabass reg and the trombone style bend seems to act as a shared air supply. I handled that set during the eighties in the National Museum but my memories of the details are sketchy so there's a degree of guesswork there. I do remember the huge bore and holes on the big bass reg and the fact the set was left in full sunlight on the windowsill of the room where the pipes were kept at the time.
Other solutions have been used, out board feeds and all that. Here's the Ferguson-Egan, inexpertly put together for the photo (by the museum curators, I would assume) :
Last edited by Mr.Gumby on Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
As far as I know there have been no attempts at getting the Vandeleur (note spelling) going. Leo Rowsome was the last to have a go I believe.
Here are a few more examples of the big yokes. Joe Doyle and his Johnny Bourke and Ronnie with his Wooff:
And Tommy Kearney playing a 4 reg Froment C. Alain had me playing that set, perhaps hoping to convince me it was superior to my own C set
(no thanks, I am fine..). It weighed a ton so I passed it on to Tommy Kearney after a while under the ruse of wanting to hear him do his version of The Castle of Dromore. It's all very long ago now.
And another Egan pic, found in a forgotten corner of my hard drive:
There's always more but perhaps we shouldn't overdo it
I can't help but thnk when looking at those big sets what the player's motivation could have been when they commissioned their instrument. We all know of a few pipers who march up to a maker and want 'five regulators, sterling silver and big balls of ivory' as their main objective. And most of us will have heard the obvious jokes. The thing is, there are very few contemporary pipers who make extensive use of all the extra hardware. More than a few realise very quickly there's an awful lot of extra weight and bits that get in the way.
Perhaps the story of Pat Fitzpatrick is illustrative. O'Neill describes the process of him getting the Taylors to make him a massive instrument.
If you listen to his 78rpm recordings though, the only note he uses on that expanse of keywork is the low G which he hits at the end of each part, each time all the time. Plop. Almost hypnotic in its repetitiveness. Perhaps 'it's a great conversation piece' (is that a Monty Python quote?) applies to these things?
I can't help but think when looking at those big sets what the player's motivation could have been when they commissioned their instrument
I stand by my description of them as a "piece of showmanship", certainly if ordered by a professional musician - useful as an advertising tool but less so in playing. Though in the case of things like the Vandeleur set (which, to be fair, is one of my favourite historic instruments) it might be more to do with rich dilettantes being talked into buying the biggest set of optional add-ons available.