Chiff and Fipple Forums

I am very much happy to be told I'm wrong on this!

I first started paying attention to uilleann pipes about 15 years ago, in my late teens. I couldn't afford pipes then, and it was several years before I managed a Daye half set, then later a proper chanter (which I still play with the wonderful Daye drones). I will be finally getting my full set later this year, to my great delight.

However, one of the things I notices was that, in around 2005 when I first browsed the web about pipes, it seemed to be amid a bit of a renaissance. There were dozens of makers with price-lists and wait times posted, lots of other merchants selling supporting things (reed cane, etc), and lots of chat and websites with information about uilleann pipes. Perhaps most indicative of all, Hakam Din full sets were everywhere - ebay, amazon, other sites - to capitalize on the unsuspecting new piper (happily I found Chiff and Fipple before I succumbed!)

Now, though there are undoubtedly more pipers, it feels like we are going through a bit of a drought of pipemaking. When one looks at the lists of makers on Uilleann Obsession or elsewhere, for example, well more than half have non-functioning websites - either retired or with full forever waitlists. New makers seem less full-time, often operating on Facebook or otherwise and without the formal ordering process of several years ago. It seems harder to find some things and it seems that many resources have stagnated if not disappeared. Again most indicatively, Harp and Dragon, Lark in the Morning, and Hobgoblin wont even sell half and full sets of Hakam Din anymore!

It won't matter much to me, as I suspect my full set will be my first and last set of pipes (hmmm maybe a half set of flat pipes, or...uuuh, maybe 3/4.... or a couple more chanters...), but I've just noticed the whole area of uilleann pipe making (NOT playing) has gone a bit quiet. Maybe it is part of a generational shift as the makers of the 90s/00's finish up and hand over to emerging makers not yet fully set up?

Am I wrong? I hope so. Would love to hear a bit of discussion from those here far more informed than me.

I think there's a few things going on -

- A few new makers came into the business after the 1990s increase in awareness in piping (combination of the internet and the R*verdance effect). Many of these will since I guess have found it a harder trade than they had anticipated, plus materials costs have increased a lot in the past few years. Interestingly quite a few of those who got started really early, i. e. in the 1970s through Matt Kiernan, are still going

- Makers now have a steady enough stream of commissions from existing customers so they may be less 'visible'. Having said that, marketing and comms are just as easy now through social media to make maintaining a traditional website unnecessary; this might make it seem that people are conducting more low key business now

I don't think there is even a slight danger of ending up in the late 69s / early 70s situation where there was a concern that technical knowledge would be lost altogether. There is still plenty of interest, many more pipers than there used to be (including young musicians, which is key) and plenty of places to get reliable information on playing and maintaining pipes.

When I was working for Seth Gallagher in the early aughts there were less pipemakers than there are now. Maybe less pipemakers use websites these days, not sure on that? But there's more truly active pipemakers now. I'm pretty confident in that.

NPU has organised a bunch of pipemaking courses in Dublin. Have many of the graduates of those courses gone on to start their own businesses?

I have a bit of a different point of view on this, even though I started paying attention to the pipes at about the same time as you and have noticed the same things that you have.

Back then, there were a lot of makers with "proper" advertised waitlists + pricelists that have since gotten out of the business or scaled back. There have definitely been enough upcoming pipemakers over the past decade joining the craft worldwide to have an overall increase in the amount of makers, though. The main hubs of discussion have changed though. Uilleannobsession and here on the Chiff and even Uilleannforum for example used to be very populated and regularly updated, but nowadays it's mostly spread on several different facebook pages with Chiff + UO being relatively empty and not up to date anymore. Back before my time, there was also an active email list that used to be another hub that fell out of style over time.

Many makers nowadays don't have to have advertised waitlists + pricelists posted anywhere anymore. Using facebook as an advertising platform and posting their work is enough to garner enough attention to get a decent waitlist for many. Word of mouth travels very fast nowadays.

The significant decrease in Hakam Din + Lark in the Morning + Harp & Dragon + Hobgoblin sets of pipes is a significant improvement. I rarely see these sets in the wild anymore, and that's a super big positive and not at all a negative.

Re: Hakam Din and that crowd - yes I agree entirely, it is a hugely positive development and one rarely sees the "Just got my pipes from ebay but they don't work" post anymore. I don't mean their disappearance is a bad thing, but given that anything popular will have hucksters come out of the woodwork to prey on, I wondered if it indicated a declining general interest.

The other points made here are good - most of the internet has pulled back from independent sites and purpose build fora such as this, in favour of social media. It's no surprise that this is also true of the piping community. Incidentally, this is one of the things I miss about the aughts internet: everything was so straightforward. If you wanted to know about uilleann pipes, you typed "uilleann pipes" into google and mainly got information as the first links, not pages of advertisement for uilleann pipe t shirts, uilleann pipe mugs, uilleann pipe mousepads, and occasionally, uilleann pipe shaped firewood. But this is true of everything. I remember being a nerdy teenager and finding the 2005 web a wonderful place of discovery on all manner of obscure hobbies and pursuits. So much of that is crowded out now by the monetisation of those hobbies that the information takes back seat.

I realize the early 2000s were also a bit of a "moment" for the pipes in a way that has now settled down. This probably contributes to it all as well.

Still, it is disheartening, because, though social media carries much of the discussion and information now, it isn't searchable and archival the way something like this forum is. As a result, when one does find an even slightly old list of makers or resources from a google search, 3 or 4 are dead links. It gives this eery feeling that the town is clearing out...

Wouldn´t it make sense to follow up on PJ´s post? NPU hosts the pipemaking classes and should be able to put you in contact graduates who are striking out in this field. They also host advertising by many of the well established makers.

Bob

More than a few makers are just getting on with work, actively avoiding an Internet presence and all connected hassle.

an seanduine wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:57 am Wouldn´t it make sense to follow up on PJ´s post? NPU hosts the pipemaking classes and should be able to put you in contact graduates who are striking out in this field. They also host advertising by many of the well established makers.

Bob

Very true- and I do find NPU is the most up to date resource. As I said I’m not looking to find a maker for me (I have one 10 mins from my house!) I’m more commenting on what seems to be an internet quietude.

Mr.Gumby wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:29 am More than a few makers are just getting on with work, actively avoiding an Internet presence and all connected hassle.

A smart enough course of action, but if one were to be completely foreign to all this, how would one find a good maker as near as possible? I was lucky enough to find a maker near me (who doesn’t have a website) but very nearly ordered from a different one (perfectly good maker) but much further away, which everyone says is less ideal.

FlaminGalah wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:28 am if one were to be completely foreign to all this, how would one find a good maker as near as possible? I was lucky enough to find a maker near me (who doesn’t have a website) but very nearly ordered from a different one (perfectly good maker) but much further away, which everyone says is less ideal.

You shouldn't rely on the Internet too much, as far as I am concerned. Talk to pipers, get the lay of the land. Contact NPU, get as much reliable information as you can.

I am not convinced at all the nearest pipe maker is by definition the best choice. Go to the one that makes pipes best suited to what you want. Even if that means buying from the other end of the world.

People just off the top of my head that are actively making pipes (I believe) that are not on the NPU list

Hendrik Morgenbrodt - https://www.morgenbrodt-pipes.de/index.php/de/

Brian Bigley - https://brianbigleymusic.com/

Andreas Rogge - https://uilleann-pipes.de

David Daye

David Quinn

Cillian O'Briain ( slowing things down though i think )

Brad Angus - https://bradanguspipes.myfreesites.net

Sam Lawrence - http://hunterpipes.co.uk/

Patrick O'Hare

Richard Patkos

Chris Bailey

BC Childress - https://www.bcpipes.com/

Michael Hubbert

Martin Preshaw

Joe Kennedy




(I keep thinking of more!)

Can't speak to slowing down, but there are a few makers in Australia making pipes right now (with queues of 1-2 years). David Goldsworthy in Brisbane makes a lovely set of pipes, and there's also Jack Brennan in SA. Ian McKenzie (Blue Mountains) is retired I believe, but he's still around, and Sydney has a few pipers around (of which I am one, and I know at least 5 more). Not sure about the trajectory of new pipe makers though.

FlaminGalah wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:23 am

an seanduine wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:57 am Wouldn´t it make sense to follow up on PJ´s post? NPU hosts the pipemaking classes and should be able to put you in contact graduates who are striking out in this field. They also host advertising by many of the well established makers.

Bob

Very true- and I do find NPU is the most up to date resource. As I said I’m not looking to find a maker for me (I have one 10 mins from my house!) I’m more commenting on what seems to be an internet quietude.

"I’m more commenting on what seems to be an internet quietude"

Exactly what I find, especially regards search results you mention. Over time good pages of info that I don't have bookmarked and that would show up in first page of search with a few relevant words, then would need more accurate quotes, then eventually be almost impossible to find. Not social media pages but website pages.

There is still a lot of good info online, but you have to get very specific in searches and wade through a ton of useless links.

I noticed looking at Chiff and Fipple post history, as well as other sites, where everything seems to taper off. I'm not sure if it's social media taking precedent or not, another facet I remember that occurred around the time social media took off was the mood shift (and spending shift) that occured around and after the "global financial crisis" ... something that in countries I visit or live in still has a profound effect on how society organises, and people's attitudes.

As I'm relatively new to the instrument makers scene, and as I don't much like newer social media, I haven't the knowledge to say if or how everyone has rearranged, I just hope that much has moved to a local level, or possibly more underground...and that if many are buying from ebay or amazon that it is those who would not otherwise have had access to instruments... and that that serves as later introduction to more traditional makers.

Still, I'm surprised Chiff and Fipple is not more active... but it is a foundation site all the same, and I expect many find places more specific to where they are at due to the increase in choice of platform ?

John Butler is making lovely sets. I recently got a 3/4 D set from him in a year's time.

dave boling