modern keywork and other bagpipe developments

[Dionys]

Here are a few:

The Amateur Wind Instrument Maker by Trevor Robinson
- Very good, *very* basic book on instrument construction.

The Physics of Musical Instruments (look for the 2nd edition) by Neville H Fletcher & Thomas D Rossing
- Very good book on the physics of musical instruments, very heavy in math/physics. Covers all instruments.

Acoustical Aspects of Woodwind Instruments by CJ Nederveen
- Excellent book on the physics of woodwinds. Heavy in math/physics. Well worth reading.

There's also Benade's book, but the two above cover all the same topics in depth and Nederveen's does a better job of woodwinds.

That should get you on your way.. Fair warning, though: If you don't like physics or have a basic understanding of it and/or mathematics the second two books will be rough reading. With Nederveen's, you can skip the equations and still get a good amount of understanding, but you'll miss the full effect.

Dionys

[boyd]

Patrick

The F nat key is played with the top pinkie on my Rogge chanter.

That might explain how Robbie Hannan plays a trill on the F nat sometimes [in reels !] and I've been finding it damn near impossible.
[Robbie uses a B set by Andreas for performing..]

Boyd

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Right a B chanter. He has the "ring" type of F nat key, not the pinky one

You can still trill on the F nat with the pinky key by bouncing the G finger.... everything is possible

Patrick.

[boyd]

I've just "air-chantered" [like air-guitar, but it's a different instrument... ]
with
1] my top hand pinkie playing the key and the G finger playing the trill
then
2] my bottom hand ring finger playing the trill on the other type of F nat key


I have to say I found No 2 a lot more natural, even though my "real" [errr..not air ] chanter is a no 1.


***********************************

Does anyone else out there play air-chanter?

...and if so, what kind of keys do you have on yours??

Boyd
www.strathspeyinmay.com

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

Aside from the Howard system keywork (and now this Rogge stuff), I`m not aware of any sort of innovative keywork for uilleann chanters. The Rogge chanter photo looked interesting though.

As far as other bagpipes go, Nigel Richard of Edinburgh has made chromatic keyed chanters for Highland and Border pipes. I believe Hamish Moore has also done a few experiments with keywork (years ago in his workshop I saw a GHB chanter--I think he was making it for Jerry O`Sullivan--with an interesting high b key), but I don`t think it`s something he`s particulary crazy about doing.

Bass bagpipes? Wasn`t there someone who had a low g chanter? I can`t remember who. Also, check out Galician piper Xose Manuel Budino`s album "Paralaia." He plays a wide range of gaitas, one of which sounds pretty low in pitch.

[ston]

So I guess my question now is, considering the level to which modern woodwinds are keyed, why aren't bagpipes too? Why don't we have a bagpipe with a 3-octave range? For instance, couldn't register keys be used to facilitate getting into higher registers? Keywork could be used to simplify complicated cross fingerings. A fipple could be used instead of a reed, allowing simple overblowing.

Are there any instrument makers here who can clarify things for me?

I suppose one thing could just be that bagpipes have a limited enough audience (both players and listeners) so as not to support concerted efforts at modernization. Seems like maybe you need a certain critical mass of players before there's enough of a market for modern tweaks of old instruments.

Or am I missing some important factor?

-David

[j.hohl.kennedy]

I suppose one thing could just be that bagpipes have a limited enough audience (both players and listeners) so as not to support concerted efforts at modernization. Seems like maybe you need a certain critical mass of players before there's enough of a market for modern tweaks of old instruments.

Hi, David.

With regards to your inquiry about "bass bagpipes", pipes that are pitched lower, you could always go with a flat set of uilleann pipes -- in Bb, say. Or, for the non-uilleann piping world, check out Jonathan Swayne, an Englishman who makes a variety of bagpipes that are a mix between several indigenous instruments. I do recall him playing a set of pipes that was pitched very low indeed -- "Bass C" I *think* I recall him calling it.

With concern to the section quoted above -- in the states, traditional Irish music and bagpipes in general have a limited audience. That's just the scene, I suppose. Besides your comments on "improving the traditional system of keys" for the uilleann pipes, what other "modernisations" would you like to see on said pipes?

*Jonathan*

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Old time piper Tom Standeven had a solid ivory chanter, wide bore D, with flute keywork to cover its fingerholes. He said it was made by the Taylor Brothers, who started the whole wide bore pipes thing and were great innovators. None of their pipes were ever stamped, though, so whether they made it or someone affixed the keywork later, it's hard to say. An article in An Piobarie showed two chanters built by Patsy Brown, a follower of the Taylors; they had the characteristic Taylor-style semitone keys (which all have holes opening on the back of the chanter), and "flute" keywork closing the fingerholes. A picture of Brown shows him playing a 4 regulator set with a double chanter that has these "flute" style keys covering the fingerholes.
Crowley of Cork used woodwind keys for the regulators, as do Arie de Kyzer and Andreas Rogge now. I hadn't seen the Howard keywork page; the descriptions don't really clue you in to anything-he says you play Fnat by "Fingering the chanter as if you were playing an E note and opening the F natural key." WOW! So it's just like every other chanter! Oh, you operate the keys with the right thumb exclusively. Huh. It seems to me that pipers simply haven't bothered to develop the technique of playing the keys as much as we could, except for some like Davy Spillane. Robbie Hannon is doing a lot with Fnat now, it's about time for him to make a new record and play tunes like the Tempest; actually you can hear Conor McKeon play the same setting on the New Dawn CD. I remember reading that Liam O'Flynn didn't use the keys at all in playing the "Brendan Voyage" orchestral piece.
Ronan Browne plays the low G chanter, built by Peter Hunter. There's a link to it somewhere, it's built in two sections. I have a tape of him playing it, some wiseacre turns on a digital tuner's G note to use as a drone! He squeaks here and there, pretty long stretch on the fingers.
Ted "Missing Link" Anderson plays some monster huge Italian Zampognas. They're measured in terms of "palms," how long in handspans they are...right, Ted? Clarify this one for us. Sean Folsom also has a giant Zampogna. Bagpipe envy. Nyuk! These are Loowwww, beautiful sounding things. Also the Grande Bourbanaisse of France. Someone made a Low D Northumbrian pipe, also.

[sturob]

So I guess my question now is, considering the level to which modern woodwinds are keyed, why aren't bagpipes too? Why don't we have a bagpipe with a 3-octave range? Keywork could be used to simplify complicated cross fingerings. A fipple could be used instead of a reed, allowing simple overblowing.

Well, I think there are several reasons for the points you raise. I'm not a maker, but I'll give you my own opinions as a player.

First, keywork is used to simplify cross-fingerings. That's the main point of it, actually; both to simplify and to clean up the tuning of the accidentals. A fully-keyed uilleann chanter is chromatic, as is a keyed simple-system flute.

Fipple instead of reed . . . I think it's much easier to get as many reeds as we have going at similar pressures than it would be for fipples. And the tone would be radically different. We can argue all afternoon about synthetic drone reeds or synthetic chanter reeds (more controversial) . . . but there's absolutely no way a fipple-chanter would sound anything like an uilleann pipe (for example). They wouldn't be bagpipes. If you wanted to invent another instrument, that's one thing.

Also, as for going into even more keywork to extend the range . . . one thing is that you can really screw with the gracing as you add keywork. The "Boru" chanter alluded to above for the GHB can't play traditional Highland gracing, and therefore it transmogrifies the highland pipes into something else.

Adding keys to an uilleann chanter might accomplish two things, I think. One, to reposition keys to be more accessible. That's being done, as has been mentioned with regard to Rogge and Howard keywork systems. I think extending the range is a more difficult question. Remember that in all orchestral woodwinds, there's an embouchure thrown into the mix. You change the conformation of the reeds, or the reed, or your lips, and you can bring out-of-tune notes into tune, and you can tweak the instrument into stratospheric octaves. We don't have that luxury/curse on the pipes, and it would surprise me if we could get much more than a couple of notes above where we play now.

Highland and lowland (SSP, borders) are a different situation because they don't overblow into another octave. There is evidence of an old tradition of "pinching" up a note or two on the conically-bored border chanter, but the modern makers will quickly tell you it doesn't work very well, and will stick keys onto the chanter if you want higher notes. There are more or less chromatic chanters for borders and SSPs, but again, it gets very difficult (if not impossible) to grace the accidentals "correctly" so they're not all that popular. One solution to this problem in the realm of cylindrical chanters is the modal chanter: Nigel Richard makes wonderful SSP chanters in various alternative modes (alternative to the standard mixolydian). I have an aeolian SSP chanter that's really a blast to play.

I'm not in any way saying that I would be opposed to wackier keywork on the chanter, but in the case of the UP, other than moving keys around, I don't think I really see a need.

Yikes! Flame away!

Stuart

[Pat Cannady]

Spot on Stu.

[Ted]

My big zampogna is a 6 palm, with the low chanter being about 48" long. The bottom note is about G on the bottom of the bass staff. I have seen an 8 palm which is about 64" long, pitched well below the bass staff. Sean's big zampogna is a 5 palm and he has it playing about C.

Ted

[djm]

I have read somewhere that Leo Rowsome could get his chanters up into the third octave when he played, but I haven't heard of anyone else doing that on a Rowsome chanter. But then again, why would you want to? It would be pretty weak and squeeky.

Going the other way, getting a UP chanter tuned to anything below A would necessitate keys, as the spacing of the notes would be impossible to reach. And what for?

Its nice to ponder these things, but if they were really practicable, someone would have done them long ago.

Just my 0.025 cents worth (inflation).

djm

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

I have read somewhere that Leo Rowsome could get his chanters up into the third octave when he played, but I haven't heard of anyone else doing that on a Rowsome chanter. But then again, why would you want to? It would be pretty weak and squeeky.

Going the other way, getting a UP chanter tuned to anything below A would necessitate keys, as the spacing of the notes would be impossible to reach. And what for?

Leo recorded his rolling version in D (instead of A) of the fiddle/box reel "The Dawn," which went up to a perfectly in tune ringing high d. He only lost it once, pretty impressive. On Liam O'Flynn's "Fine Art of Piping" he plays a hornpipe, "The Queen of the Fairies," which is full of high Ds, they don't sound thin in any way on a good chanter. Liam's Rowsome chanter has a special key for the high D, which was standard on the old flat chanters, many of which also had a little key on the front to get a high e in the 3rd octave. The Taylors never put this key on the chanters they made with their unique keywork, since there wasn't room for it after all the other keys were on, except on the side, as was usual with the older chanters. I believe the Taylors developed this unique key system to put keys on double chanters, which after all have to have the holes on the front or back. (I can imagine something Rube Goldbergian in nature that would close holes on both sides at once, but it would be quite absurd and heavy). This link is of an Egan chanter and its copy, with the old style keywork in blocks: http://www.concentric.net/~pdarcy/photos/angus_egan.jpg
That's Page 5j. Note the long high d and tiny high e keys. Pat's Obssesive site used to have a picture of the monster Taylor set which was on the cover of Pat Sky's tutor, or at least the original edition of it; I can't seem to find on the site now. Anyway-in this picture there's this big metal block on the top (above the back D) of the set's double chanter. These are keys for reaching high e and high fnat or f#. On a double chanter, no less.
Actually I have some photos of a Taylor single with these keys...think I'll fire up the scanner...You there Pat, ya shudderbuggerer? I mean shutterbug...heads up...

[Pat Cannady]

Here is the photo you mentioned, Kevin:



http://www.concentric.net/~pdarcy/photo ... taylor.jpg

FAR OUT, MAN...

[meir]

welcome ston!

i would like to say in plain english what no one else has (if i missed it i apologize)

uilleann pipes with more than the simple keys currently used would not be uillean pipes.

you would not be able to slide.

irish ornementation would not sound the same.

it is doubtful if you could do vibrato. remember, mouthblown instruments can have diaphragmatic vibrato, but in UPs we have to do it with downstream finger vibrato and bagwork.

take the flute as an example. the curent classical flute has evolved over 200 years from a "simple system" flute.

and what happened?

musicians (traditional) kept the simple system alive and re-introduced the keyless flute. because such instruments retain abilities the boehn flute has lost.

another point is the reed. our reeds are tempermental, and sometimes you have to compensate with changes in bag pressure and even taping holes. how will fancy keywork tolerate that?

just my thoughts.


meir