WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

A forum about Uilleann (Irish) pipes and the surly people who play them.

What to do?

Smuggle a Kennedy set past customs
3
23%
Go bankrupt on a Wooff set
8
62%
Stop worrying about an NBD set
1
8%
Steal someone's drones while they're at the bar
1
8%
 
Total votes: 13

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MarkP
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WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by MarkP »

Hi, I'm trying to decide where to go next with my piping. I'm sure I'll figure it out in my own time but advice would be welcome, or offers... send me a PM :wink:

I'm a learner on the pipes but I play flute and whistle so the basic transition to chanter this year hasn't been too bad. I have a nice practice set, great bellows (Cillian O'Briain style) with two very different D chanters - one with the set (Mickey Dunne, boxwood) and a narrow bore (Joe Kennedy). I'm happy playing tunes at home and sometimes at sessions (when I think I can get away with it :wink:). Long way to go but all good so far. I want to get the drones going as soon as possible and I'm sticking with a set in D. So, what to do...?

1. build on my Kennedy NBD chanter - I love the flat tone of the Kennedy chanter, other people say how sweet it is, and it's quiet enough that I don't get self-conscious playing it out as a learner. I could ask Joe about drones, maybe regs, but I'm not sure about tying myself to a maker so far away in Canada if I need help with them. I'd also risk 25% import taxes! Anyone in Europe like to sell me their Kennedy NBD drones/set with or without chanter? Any other drones/half sets out there that might match up with my chanter? :)

2. buy a similar NBD set - I have the rare offer of a full Wooff set but it would clean me out financially to do that in one go. Maybe I should push the boat out? Anyone want to buy a nice Rudall flute? Or my chanters? :wink: Alternatively, Brian Kraus makes a similar style of NBD set, on the doorstep, less well known, a lot cheaper, his own set sounds great but I had a bit of difficulty trying to play it as a beginner. I could ask him for some drones at little cost, if they could be reeded to play with my Kennedy NBD chanter, or get a half set of his in about a year (no deposit, no obligation to buy when they're made, which is generous).

3. get a WBD set instead - much as I love the NB sound will I regret it later when my confidence increases if I find it hard to hear myself playing out with other people on an NBD set? I could still keep my sweet NBD chanter at home and just buy a WBD set. My Mickey Dunne chanter feels loud to me as a beginner but other people tell me it's fine. He's only an hour or so away, or Eugene Lambe is just down the road if I found a set that needed reeding or if I wanted to order one.

I'd be happy enough to find some drones that I could practice with now on either of my chanters but if I'm going on a waiting list I'd better make my mind up :-?
Mark
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by Mr.Gumby »

I don't think anyone can answer these questions but yourself. The answers depend fully on what you want to do and what aesthetic of sound you're happy with.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by MarkP »

Indeed, a rather wistful and slightly tongue in cheek request, welcome your experience anyway :wink:
Mark
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by BigDavy »

Hi Mark

I voted go for the Wooff set :lol: money no object.

On a practical note the Maloney full set has 2 hours to go at the time of writing and has no bids on it. If pushing the boat out for the Wooff is too much, then using the NBD chanter with the Maloney set could suit your finances better.

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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by An Draighean »

All I can say is that being in Europe somewhere, you are much closer to many good pipemakers than I am on this side of the Atlantic. If you really like the sound of one maker over another, then distance shouldn't be that much of a hurdle, or rather, the bother would be worth it. In my own case, I have three sets of pipes, all of which came from your side of the Atlantic. Are there times I wish my makers were closer? Sure, but I have managed to get by so far. I'm learning to make my own reeds, but not quite there yet. But two of my three sets, I would not part with for any any amount of money or no matter how far the maker might be.

As far as the Wooff set goes, I'm sure you know that Geoff's order book is closed and it sounds like permanently - so if that's what you want and you have or can get the money, there will probably never be a better time than now to buy one, as the value is likely to go up and the availability is likely to go down.

In any event, best wishes on your decision.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by flutefry »

I find myself in a similar situation, and have flipped and flopped. If only to provide an example of what not to do, here is my piping story.

1) Started on a concert practice set, but found it loud, and wife didn't find it appealing, and I fond it embarrassing to be so clearly heard in sessions.

2) got a Joe Kennedy NBD. Lovely chanter, stable, good tuning, reliable. I am in Canada, wait list is long.

3) Meanwhile, moved up the waiting list and was offered a full concert set a couple of years early, so I took it. By this time I was playing a bit better, and the concert set was useful for gigs and large sessions, and I had reeds that allowed me to play louder or softer,and I had acquired a lovely concert chanter from Tom Aebi (highly recommended).

4) Pipers around me started buying C sets, so I put my name on Joe's list for a C set. When potential delivery dates seemed to be approaching, I started selling off the flute, whistle, chanter collection, including the NBD to make paying for the C set possible. I sold the NBD thinking I was getting a flat set, and had use for the concert set, so what didn't make sense was a quiet D chanter.
Last edited by flutefry on Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by PJ »

Sounds like you like the narrow-bore sound, so stick with that (i.e. forget the wide-bore).

Then it's a question of which set you prefer, the Wooff or the Kennedy. You already have the Kennedy chanter and seem to be very happy with that. Do you prefer the sound of the Wooff chanter? If yes, then go after the Wooff set. Otherwise, start building up the Kennedy set.

Incidentally, I don't think I've seen any Kennedy narrow-bore sets, just chanters.

Also, what is Joe's waiting list like these days? A few years back it was up to 7 years.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by benoit trémolières »

I'm always repeating the same things, but I'm convinced that everything is about reeds!
The instrument by itself is only a third of the problem.
The two others are the staple and the reed head.

I'm pretty sure that concert pitch's D drones can be reeded to fit with both a narrow bore AND a wide bore chanter, working on the reeds inner diameter, or something like that.

In the same way, you can make a n. bore loud, and a C.pitch sweet, only by means of how you reed them.

If the set is correctly made, technicaly speaking, everything is possible.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by Coffee »

"All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal.
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All that you say.
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight.
All that is now
All that is gone
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and everything under the sun is in tune
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by geoff wooff »

Of course I voted for going broke on a Wooff set. But then I would, I hear you say , but the reason is that Mark P. lives on the west coast of Ireland where that 'for sale' set was made and it will and does suit the climate.

If you live in Canada then Joe Kennedy should be your choice for an NBD.

To a large extent I agree with Benoît that reeds are very much a controling factor for how a set sounds... not that I would choose to match the typical wide bore drones with a narrow bore chanter or vice versa... but a lot can be done to equalise the volumes .

I like to reed up my NBD's to play as loud as possible because it is not that I like quiet pipes, I want them to play in sessions but not to drown out many other instruments ( as some people's pipes can) ,it is that I like the way the flat set plays but wanted to be able to use one in a session so I set about developing a flat set in D... for myself... now look where it has got me :poke:
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by giles b »

I was fortunate enough to have my name come up on Geoff's list in 2001. I was not long out of university. I had been saving for the set since I ordered in in 2006. At the time it seemed very expensive but I was happy to pay the price as I knew the quality of the pipes. I have had trouble free and mostly very in tune piping since then. Apart from the drone reeds which have been replaced by fantastic elder reeds by a great friend of mine I am still playing the same reeds that were in it when I collected in from Geoff in May 2001 (I do not mess about with the reeds). I have re tuned the regs a bunch of times since I have had them (it's what you do with reg's) but the chanter has almost always been dead on, no rush, tape, wax, the occasional slip of paper in the bell but that is very rare.

I was living in NYC when I first got the pipes and they worked well there, all year except for a few days right in the depths of winter. I then lived in New Orleans for a brief stint, worked well there. Moved back to Adelaide in 04 and they have continued to sing. Early during this time I travelled with the pipes frequently and did not had any problems that were insurmountable. I do not think my experience with Geoff's pipes is an isolated incident.

They're in B and were the set right after Pat Darcy's.

If you have the chance of getting your hands on a set made by Geoff, assuming that you intend to keep playing, do it, you will not be disappointed.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by MarkP »

geoff wooff wrote:Of course I voted for going broke on a Wooff set. But then I would, I hear you say... it is not that I like quiet pipes, I want them to play in sessions but not to drown out many other instruments ( as some people's pipes can) ,it is that I like the way the flat set plays but wanted to be able to use one in a session so I set about developing a flat set in D... for myself... now look where it has got me :poke:
Just so.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by geoff wooff »

Mark, if you want to know how I think the NBD should sound then PM Mr.Gumby and see if he'll play his set for you.He lives in your region.

For anybody else interested in aquiring a Wooff set please note that so far they have proved to be a better investment than anything else . Sets bought during the 1990's have mostly tripled in value and some of those made during the 2000's have doubled . There will be precious few more made either.

Good luck to all, and thanks for the kind comments Giles.

Geoff.

PS: of course Derrick Gleeson is developing his NBD's and I hear that Paddy Hyland is also making them . So that is two more people in Ireland to enquire of.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by pancelticpiper »

It would be easy for me: if I had a chanter I really liked, I would just buy some drones (preferably good-playing second-hand ones, for multiple reasons) and stick them on my current setup.

I've done that a number of times actually. I've been playing the same chanter since I bought it new in 1978. For many years I played it in a Eugene Lambe full set (I never used the Lambe chanter).

Having sold that full set, the last few years I've been playing that chanter with some very nice drones I picked up from a fellow C&F-er, quite a step up tone-wise from the Lambe drones, it seems to me.

If it aint' broke don't fix it, as we say here.

That's me. Everyone is different. As has been pointed out, it's a decision only you can make for yourself.
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Re: WTB...beg, borrow or steal?

Post by MarkP »

Right, thanks for all the advice, case closed. I'm sticking with my Kennedy NBD chanter and looking for some suitable drones or a half set that I can use it with (back to Plan A and still financially solvent). The chanter has had some more playing time and I've tweaked one of the reeds so that it's now playing a lot harder than it was. I took it to the pub last night and was sat next to Becky Taylor with her lovely Crowley set and Coulter D chanter. The Kennedy NBD held up really well in the session situation (up to 12 musicians at one point) and the two pipes sounded well together, if not the respective skills of the two pipers :wink:

So...I'm back to looking for some suitable drones or a half set, ideally in the Coyne style, to buy, beg, borrow or steal.
Mark
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