Brazenkaine wrote:Some musicians don't hear as much music as they hear technique, which is why their hands sound brilliant and their music sounds machine like. Others seem to get at something that is far more intangible. That only seems to happen when everything is in place, yet "forgotten" about by the musician at that particular moment when everything comes together.
Precisely.
Certainly all of the technique must be mastered before one can move on to what you call the intangible (and what I'd call finding the voice), but even when learning piping technique, it's important to know where you're going with it. It's one thing to be able to play a roll or a tight triplet: it's quite another thing to know when to use it to best effect.
CHasR wrote:
I'm still obsessing over that stuff five years later, and I expect to be obsessing over it for the rest of my piping career. Eventually I discovered how much difference a good/personally suited reed and chanter can make, but I agree that's not the whole story. Everybody's tone is unique, I think, because everybody has a slightly different combination of reed, chanter, bag arm, habits, finger size, dexterity, technique, and inner music. Of all of those, only finger size strikes me as not subject to potential improvement...
my $0.02 (if indeed it's worth that much)
KAD
I would not go mad trying to suss someones tone that you fell in love with on a recording. As soon as the sound goes into the mic and through whatever gear came after it, the tone changed (for better or worse).
I know guys who are professional session musicians. they are constantly blowing big $$ on gear going after tone. they sink mega amounts of time and money and yet, it's always elusive.
Listen to how your pipe heros are making their music. If you keep focusing on that, bag pressure, venting and all that other stuff will fall perfectly into place.
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years. These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
This debate about the individual player's impact on timbre (to use the technical, narrow, and clear word) goes around in the Highland bagpipe scene as well.
The Highland pipes are even more mechanistic than the uilleann pipes, in that
1) all good players use exactly the same fingerings, and
2) the goal it to play at one exactly even and unchanging pressure.
It's my contention that an air compressor, if set to the correct pressure, will produce exactly the same timbre as the Best Piper On Earth, on a given set of pipes.
The uilleann pipes are much more complex in that varying pressures and fingerings are used to get a variety of timbres out of each note.
But it is still nowhere near the variety of, say, the trumpet, where the player's very lips are the reed as it were.
On the uilleann pipes, IF two players are using the same pressure and IF they are using the same fingering for a given note (on the same set of pipes), they will get the identical timbre.
On a brass instrument, two players playing a note at the same pressure and using the same fingering will get quite different timbres due to the configuration of their lips and oral cavity etc.
pancelticpiper wrote:
On the uilleann pipes, IF two players are using the same pressure and IF they are using the same fingering for a given note (on the same set of pipes), they will get the identical timbre.
On a brass instrument, two players playing a note at the same pressure and using the same fingering will get quite different timbres due to the configuration of their lips and oral cavity etc.
This is my point (made more concisely). Of course, as soon as the player starts to inject his voice, then everything changes.
To the OP's original point, it would interesting to know what characteristics of reed and chanter - fundamental timbre, response of certain notes - best allow payers to achieve the sound they are aiming for.
I would say the tone expressed by the great pipers: Ennis, O’Flynn, Clancy, etc. is 90% the pipes and 10% the piper.
The tone of the pipes comes from the bore dimensions; type of material; tone hole size, etc.
The expression of tone by the piper comes from manipulating the fingering of the chanter. Every note on the chanter has 2-3 tones depending on the fingering. I always like to point out that my old Kenna chanter has four A notes and three F# notes, depending on the fingering, add to this the chanter on or off the knee and the tone changes quite a bit.
I know that I can recognize many sets of pipes immediately when they are turned on even before the first note is played. The buzz of the drones on that Ennis set is clear as can be.
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years. These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
patsky wrote: Every note on the chanter has 2-3 tones depending on the fingering. I always like to point out that my old Kenna chanter has four A notes and three F# notes, depending on the fingering, add to this the chanter on or off the knee and the tone changes quite a bit.
I think that you are only scratching the surface of the tonal possibilities: think of how many ways A can be fingered (the four digits below A can be lifted in any combination), add in on or off the leg, and add in all the possible vibrato fingerings, and you have dozens (if not hundreds) of possible timbres for A.
Another example is back D- seven different individual fingers can be used to put vibrato on it, and they can be used in various combinations as well.
I think we're getting away from the original point of the thread which is the mix of tone, technique and other elements to give the unique "voice" of an instrument in the hands of a particular piper. We should be learning to listen for that voice in other pipers' music and to hear that voice in our own playing.
pancelticpiper wrote:It's my contention that an air compressor, if set to the correct pressure, will produce exactly the same timbre as the Best Piper On Earth, on a given set of pipes.
You can look at the Organ as a realy big set of Pipes with a compressor.
hmm, when my Cat jumps on my Pipe-Organ, it has the same timbre
than me. O.K.
But even on an elektrik Organ, you will know who is playing after
only a few Notes. (after a while, you will even know if my cat is
playin or me) The Voice is not only the pressure ore the timbre.
Beau Comiseau wrote:Are dynamics fixed or variable on uilleann pipes?
To a large extent, dynamics are fixed on UPs. There's an old joke about chainsaws having more dynamics than bagpipes. But this is not an absolute. As has been mentioned, you can lift the chanter off the knee for a slightly louder note, but you can often control this difference somewhat and mix it with a slur, giving a "swelling" effect. Also, you can play the same note with slightly more or less pressure. Depending on the reed, this can help to bring out or strengthen some of the overtones/harmonics on some notes. These are the sorts of subtle techniques that different pipers use to give them their own sound.
djm
I'd rather be atop the foothills than beneath them.
Beau Comiseau wrote:Are dynamics fixed or variable on uilleann pipes?
Depending on the reed, this can help to bring out or strengthen some of the overtones/harmonics on some notes. These are the sorts of subtle techniques that different pipers use to give them their own sound.
djm
Well put!
Psalm 33:3
Sing to Him a new song;
Play skillfully with a shout of joy
pancelticpiper wrote:It's my contention that an air compressor, if set to the correct pressure, will produce exactly the same timbre as the Best Piper On Earth, on a given set of pipes.
You can look at the Organ as a realy big set of Pipes with a compressor.
hmm, when my Cat jumps on my Pipe-Organ, it has the same timbre
than me. O.K.
But even on an elektrik Organ, you will know who is playing after
only a few Notes. (after a while, you will even know if my cat is
playin or me) The Voice is not only the pressure ore the timbre.
