CJ Dixon bags...

[Cayden]

OK if we're going to take that angle: I took the piss out of the underlying claim that I read into 'I use the same material as..' . And I took the piss because it means feck-all. What really would inform you guys is being told that a bag is tightly (hand)stitched and air tight or not as the case may be. For all you know from the information supplied you may get a riveted slightly leaking thing. Or maybe not, the information is just not there, just the suggestion that comes with 'same material as..'.

What my comment implied was 'it doesn't matter what material you use, what's important is what you do with it' which in turn is a way of making you aware you may want to think about things like that (how is the fine leather actually stuck together, is that a good way of doing it, will it by the end of the day hold the air, will it last) and make a really informed choice about the stuff you buy. Will the outcome be you buy one of CJ's, that's fine by me, if that is the outcome of a rational consideration, not because you bought some virtually meaningless sales pitch.

[Joseph E. Smith]

OK if we're going to take that angle: I took the piss out of the underlying claim that I read into 'I use the same material as..' . And I took the piss because it means feck-all. What really would inform you guys is being told that a bag is tightly (hand)stitched and air tight. For all you know from the information supplied you may get a riveted slightly leaking thing. Or maybe not, the information is just not there, just the suggestion of 'same material as..'. What my comment implied was 'it doesn't matter what material you use, what's important is what you do with it' which in turn is a way of making you aware you may want to think about things like that (how is the fine leather actually stuck together, is that a good way of doing it, will it by the end of the day hold the air, will it last) and make a really informed choice about the stuff you buy. Will the outcome be you buy one of CJ's, that's fine by me, if that is the outcome of a rational consideration, not because you bought some virtually meaningless sales pitch.

And yes, I have a certain aversion against people who use the forums only to flog something without contributing much more so I may put in the boot a bit sometimes.

Sometimes, perhaps, implying something doesn't work quite as well as actually coming out and stating what you really mean... as long as it isn't an attack on someone. It removes most of the risk of being misunderstood.

But from my experience, having to read the gazillions of posts here, I don't think you have been anything but highly critical of Chris and his work. Criticism is fine, but every time he posts something you're right there to take him to task for it and it really looks like you are stalking him. This recent post seemed even more so than most of the past ones.

Peter, I have a great deal of respect for you and your knowledge and I feel that you do this forum a very good turn by sharing yourself with us. But there are times where I honestly feel it might be better to just leave certain things (people) alone, unless it is a gross misuse of these forums by anyone of its other contributors.

[billh]

Hi CJ:

My experience has been that use of porous leather is an issue for many pipe bags. I really dislike seasoning and I doubt that I am alone in this feeling. The L&M bags which you refer to (not sure about the MacHarg, nowadays) include a proprietary coating of some sort on the inside, smooth-side of the leather which renders it more airtight than the chrome/"elk"-tanning alone.

Since you did mention it, I'd like a clarification. When you say your bags are made of "the same material" as the L&M bags, do you mean that you have a source for elk-tanned leather with the proprietary coating?

It was my understanding that the latter product had disappeared from the open market in recent years - something about the (Canadian?) leather supplier discontinuing the product, followed by L&M buying the process and/or hiring the fellow who used to make it at the previous leather supplier. (I of course could be misinformed about this.)

If you have a source for the same leather including the coating then indeed this is important and valuable information for potential purchasers.

best regards,

Bill

[somethingclever]

for the record,

it is possible to leave one of those bags on a table, full, all day and it wont lose any air. I think that is impressive but what do i know.

At least thats what Bruce childress told me

[Doc Jones]

In case anyone actually wanted to talk about CJ's bags...

If I may say so, CJ makes a terrific bag and is a lovely fellow...Very conscientious, quality work.

Doc

[myrddinemrys]

thanks, Chris.

[reedbiter]

It does matter what type of leather is used in a bag and in a bellows. The leather that is used by L&M and MacHarg originally came (perchance still does) from the very same tannery in Canada using a patented process. Air does NOT pass through this particular leather. Using a substandard leather that is* porous makes a tremendous difference. This particular leather can (happily enough for many hobbiests and DIY'ers) be inexpensively (relatively speaking) obtained through Tandy Leather.

[Joseph E. Smith]

This particular leather can (happily enough for many hobbiests and DIY'ers) be inexpensively (relatively speaking) obtained through Tandy Leather.

No offense here David, but in my experience there is no such thing as inexpensive at Tandy Leather.

I last did business with them well 20 years ago, but quit when I discovered they charged two to three times (probably more today, who knows) higher for the same product I could get through a whole-saler.

Needless to say, I haven't looked back since.

[Cayden]

It does matter what type of leather is used in a bag and in a bellows

Yes, I agree with you to that extend. But whatever top materials you use, it's still what you do with them what matters, in the case of bags how you finish them (rivet vs stitching for example) and how you tie your stocks in. Let's say I recently had a visitor looking for lessons who's fairly new bag passed about the same amount of air you would use playing two drones. That escaped through riveted seams and poorly tied stocks (especially around the blow-pipe you could hear air going while playing) and the leather used was of no consequence or maybe at best saved it from worse. It was no big problem as the bag drove a practice set. Should you tie a full set into that bag and play drones and regulators with it the extra air going will let itself be felt, especially when you're a learner.

[cquick]

It seems to me that this thread has gone on long enough - it has however provided a lot of advertising for CJ that otherwise he would not have been able to get.


Chuck

[Joseph E. Smith]

It seems to me that this thread has gone on long enough - it has however provided a lot of advertising for CJ that otherwise he would not have been able to get.


Chuck

Yes, advertisement for Chris... so what of it? It is the rest of us doing it not the man himesself.

It has also mutated into a nice discussion on bag leather... I think I'll let it continue.

[Pipewort]

Hear, Hear, Mr Moderator.

I reply mainly for the description of this wonderous leather to be fleshed out, 'though that might not be the most logical way to put the request.

So Elk, but how tanned and treated, and what grade or thickness. I need to make a new bag and some bellows sometime soon and would like to know what to ask for in some detail.

Cheers

Pwt

[Rob Sharer]

Lurker from flute forum here.....

My question is, is this sort of "activist moderation" common on this part of the forum? Things get much saltier over on the flute forum, and no one of moderator status steps in until it gets really ugly and personal. I read with interest the original post, and got a chuckle out of Mr. Laban's pointed riposte, never once thinking it was intended to slander or harm anyone. I saw no value in anyone's stepping in to apply the rod of correction to someone who was merely expressing his personal opinion.

As I said, over on the flute board, there's definitely someone hovering over all proceedings, watching for real dangerous behaviour. However, the filter is a bit less fine, which suits me fine and doesn't seem to mess things up for the forum users. I would hope that I wouldn't be pilloried for expressing this opinion, but here it is: unless things get much uglier than what happened here, I would ask that moderators let people express their opinions freely, and not take an activist role unless it's absolutely necessary to preserve order.

As a wise Irishman once said, all things in moderation, including moderation.

Rob

[Joseph E. Smith]

Thank you for your opinion Rob. It is noted. It isn't possible to catch everything going awry, but there are plenty of moderators about and should you have the need to report trouble, we are at your disposal.

However, this is considerably off topic and I will ask you to please return the matter at hand.... bag leather.

[Rob Sharer]

I suppose flute bags don't count? Better bow out.....

Before I do, would someone kindly direct me to any pertinent threads relating to old (but made from good quality leather!) UP bags that have begun to leak, and how to rectify the situation? Thanks,

Rob