Chiff and Fipple Forums

Elbogo, generally I agree with the intentions of your point, but referring back to the same thread you mentioned, at what point does it stop being UPs? If we take the current new age albums like pointed to by this current thread, the reality is that what was played on UPs did not need to be played on UPs. In other words, a UP chanter did not necessarily add anything that another bagpipe chanter, or wind instrument, or even synth patch, couldn't have provided just as well.

So, if we are to dicsuss future musical directions, and if you want to include new age music in the discussion, I would have to ask at what point do UPs stop being UPs? There are many types of bagpipes, and many types of woodwinds. If you were to say that UPs are really only the chanter with no drones or regs, then can you really say you're playing UPs? I don't mind that people play other than ITM on UPs (e.g. Davy Spillane, Jerry O'Sullivan), but if you aren't utilizing the full set, and taking advantage of the full sound of it can bring, then are you really playing UPs at all? There are lots of other ways to make a long whaaaa sound with vibratto. Is that all UPs are?

djm

I'm not really familiar with Troy's playing, but he does play in a lovely duet with himself on UP's and Katherine Tickell on NSP's on one of her CD's.

Calum wrote:I suspect Alan's point is that even contemplating getting worked up about this nonsense is less worthy of your time than, say, choreographing for earthworms.

Not at all. I thought the snippets I listened to were rather 'Michael Nyman'ish. Maybe not my cup of tea, but I could appreciate the structure as being a cut above 'newageceltic' music. I remember hearing a mad version of Rakish Paddy by a band called 'You Slosh' a long time ago, piper? none other than Troy Donockley, and that band had grungy guitar and rockin' drums, he certainly tries things out (last I heard, he was working with Joan Baez? or maybe it was Maddy Prior?). I just think it's unfair to judge someone on such a small example of their work. I did a sesh for a bloke a few years back and it was so painfully misguided, I never wanted to hear the finished product, and I, for sure, wouldn't want to be judged by it. Took the cheque though

Just' cos you can play them, don't mean you have to!!

Alan

hehe. Oh well. I won't be listening to him till his website becomes downloadable in a timespan shorter than weeks.

Should give you plenty of time to choreograph your earthworm then!! (Ooooh missus!)

Alan

new age music? isn't that what you hear when you play new age music backwards?

.why ,,, yes. it is , that is what I hear at the spa ,, . Of course , " no needle is sharp at both ends " .

tom .
.

I have to agree with Alan, on this one, Troy's music, at least the clips I heard, did appear to be more substantial than the what one refers to as new age music... and actually seems a blend, more in keeping that broader genre of World Music. A more interesting genre, I might add, that has more potential.

Djm, the UPs are the UPs, with their own highly unique sound, and true, there must be the drones and the regs. I think if one is going to travel outside the Traditional, with things like this, and making the UPs the main focus, they should certainly be used more often, and fully utilized, with the full set going. Otherwise, as you said, why use them instead of some other instrument.

You know, D'Arcy loves new age music...

djm wrote:I believe that's an Chinese imperial trooper from the Ching dynasty. Very Celtic, that.

djm

Dammit, djm! (almost sounds like Jim...) Don't use the Wade-Giles romanization system! Wade-Giles sucks! Pinyin, the standard romanization system in Red China, is oh so much better. What you meant to say is:

"I believe that's a Chinese imperial trooper from the Qing Dynasty."

A trooper you say? He could be a eunuch...That would probably be more appropriate considering the music...

Let's call a spade a spade here. Most of us who have played uilleann pipes for more than a few months tend to metamorphose into unconscionable snobs, whether we like it or not. Just happens. As that happens, our tastes in what constitutes "good" uilleann pipe/"traditional" music generally tend to become narrower in scope.

Now, I for one detest anything new-agey and I firmly believe there are some "Celtic" musicians who are destined to fight over bunk space in Hell with John Tesh, but I think we're forgetting that this sort of music wasn't meant to be marketed toward anyone with much of a serious interest in UPs anyway. It could, however be useful as a kind of "gateway" sorta thing, though. Most of us who consider ourselves fine conoisseurs of the solo piping idiom didn't jump straight into the deep end and start off listening to reel-to-reel tapes of Tommy Reck. We started off listening to Davy Spillane, or the Bothy Band, or Riverdance, or whatever.

The first "Celtic" group I heard was a Scottish "Celtic-rock" band called Wolfstone. Today, I find their music to be utter sonic excreta, but if I hadn't started off by listening to them, I wouldn't have found out about the Battlefield Band and then Altan and Old Blind Dogs, and then the Bothy Band and Planxty, etc., etc.

For the record, I'm sure Troy Donockley is a fine piper. So why'd he do something new-agey sounding? 'Cause maybe he thought he'd have a better shot at recouping the recording costs. In the end, if you're a professional musician, you're almost certainly going to have to go against your own artistic morals in order to keep money flowing into your bank account. Take Ronan Browne, for instance. He's widely (and justly) regarded as one of the finest pipers around today. He also records nausea-inducing new age garbage for Japanese video game soundtracks.

I really don't much enjoy listening to very many groups sporting UPs at all or those who try so hard to "bring the instrument up to date." That being said, I've always fantasized about putting together a group of musicians proficient on both trad. instruments and "rock" instruments. There are plenty of pipers and fiddle players who can also strum a guitar or bang on the drums. It could be a folk music ensemble in the broadest sense. The musicians could go from playing fiddles, flutes, pipes and boxes to guitars, drums, and basses. ("Thank you, thank you. That was The Home Ruler and Fisher's Hornpipe. We'd like to continue on now with "The Killing Moon" by Echo and the Bunnymen...")

Okay, it's time for my medication now...

Wade-Giles: Ch'ing
Yale: Ching
Pinyin: Qing

Its all Chinese to me.

Personally, I intend to meld a full UP set with Metal Hurlant. It was the inherent sex and violence that originally attracted me to ITM, so extending it into the HM genre seems to me a natural progression.

djm

elbogo wrote:You know, D'Arcy loves new age music...

Huh? Well.... if the money is right!

PD.

Hey Pitchfork, wasn't that "The Killing Moon"?

Great album that, Ocean Rain

Oh, God yes, I think you're right. I'd been singing it in my head wrong.

Maybe 'cause I'd just been teaching one of my worst classes...

Put that poor goose down and pay attention for a minute!

For those of you that didn't get to hear the "drivel" that Troy Donockley's produced in his latest "pursuit of illusion", do grab it from the discount bin when it shows there in the future...it won't dissappoint...Troy's an awesome composer and since he's rather sophisicated in his approach. What was incorrectly characterized earlier in this thread as "new age" is actually "modern classical" composition at it's very best. It takes a rather large pile of instruments to give the score what it deserves.

When you can make a chanter do what Troy can - it's not always necessary to drag in the reg's, but when he gets going (with drones, reg's and all) it takes a lot of bellowin' to keep things goin'. In fact, I've not seen playing at his level at any of the three Seattle Tionóls I've attended. It's possible he has peers in Ire or elsewhere, but not any that I've heard up here in the Northwest. And PLEASE, don't get fussy - he is afterall a professional musician...and also has an awesome stage presence which makes it somewhat unfair I guess...

Regarding his TRADITIONAL music; You'll get a feel for his reels in "Castlerigg" (You Slosh - and more recently another arrangement of same with - Iona) or "Reels" (also Iona). I think you'll find some 64th notes that are real jaw droppers. (I'm sure his fingers hurt afterwards!)

You also don't want to miss Troy's UP/Bodhran-duet with Terl Bryant (world class percussionist) in "Hair on the Margarine" I believe it's called - on one of Terl's releases. A full complement of drones, reg's, and...well, just a really nice jig.

You Slosh was indeed Troy's first band - which he formed and led...and for which he composed nearly everything.

Troy's said he's willing to head over from the UK for one of the Tionol's in the future. Probably if it can coincide with another album mix at Trillium Lane Studios (awesome place!).

OK! Back to yer Goose Stranglin'!

All is well on the Wild Green Coast

Steve in Seattle

Terl Bryant's Traditional bitty isn't really "Hair on the Margarine" , it's "Barefoot In The Grass/the Old Pipe On The Hob".......but I like the the first name better!

in Seattle