Old pipes on ebay

Pipewort · Post by **Pipewort** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:04 pm

Restoration is a special craft, quite different from building from new. That said, there are a few pipemakers who have this skill. However, I would much prefer a well respected pipemaker restore this set, than some 'fettler', for at least the respected pipemaker would understand the heritage, and value from that point of view, of this set, than some bodger who would quick fix it in an attempt to get it to play. What the latter would discard or ruin in their fix, without the deep understanding of the craft of making pipes entails, beggars belief.

The price when I last looked, would I hope deter the bodgers from even thinking about even touching this set, let alone 'fixing it up'.

Lets hope that the set goes to the right place, no matter who made it, or it's various bits. The first job would be to identify and catelogue the various components, before they are further butchered, and preserve them all, well before attempting any restoration.

Pwt

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:26 pm

Hmm... the seller has added some other parts to the auction, including this interesting bit:

On Apr-16-07 at 14:37:28 PDT, seller added the following information:
>>>>FYI<<<< I will be listing a large amount of photographs as well as any new information about these pipes that I get from any eBayers. The additional information will included measurements, and details. Please check back frequently. The previous owners of these pipes wished to stay anonymous. Any information I am able to get will only be revealed to the high bidder, if and when I get it.

If you look at my first added photograph you will see several pieces that were not picture in my first set of photographs. The reason is I just had these pieces brought to me, and they are now all included in this auction. The larger piece is a Chanter with a double set of holes. The ivory fittings don't match the ivory on the body on Uilleann Pipe, but I am sure it is antique and been with this lot for a very long time. <<<

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On Apr-16-07 at 15:18:18 PDT, seller added the following information:

pipersgrip · Post by **pipersgrip** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:24 pm

6 days left, and already 25 bids and it is up to 5,100

Elmek · Post by **Elmek** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:43 am

Peter Laban wrote
re the double chanter: the top end is broken broken off in a very tricky spot

Is this not just a loose mount that has slipped back onto the wrapping ?

Edited to remove a possible insinuation that might have gotten the thred locked

John

o'corragain · Post by **o'corragain** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:20 am

What is the main reason behind the development of the double chanter? Was it to increase the volume? I am presuming they are tuned identically.

David

PJ · Post by PJ » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:00 am

o'corragain wrote:What is the main reason behind the development of the double chanter? Was it to increase the volume? I am presuming they are tuned identically.

David

I would imagine it would be a mix of volume and tone. I doubt very much if both reeds/bores would be identically tuned. Firstly as it is difficult to get one reed/bore perfectly tuned it must be hell to get a double reed/bore perfectly tuned. Secondly, small variations would produce a very interesting tone, like in a harmonica. I think Seamus Ennis compared Pat Ward's double chanter to the sound of a mellow concertina.

On the Drones and Chanters Vol 1, Leo Rowsome plays a double chanter.

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:02 am

o'corragain wrote:What is the main reason behind the development of the double chanter? Was it to increase the volume? I am presuming they are tuned identically.

David

That seems to be the common opinion. I would say no however. The double chanters I have heard are double narrow bores and quite sweet in tone... if you can get over the wet tuning. They should be perfectly in tune but that's not an easily achieved feat.

I would say the sound of the double chanter was a fashion statement at one time. You see adverts from the 19th C. seeking pipers who play double chanters. Of course at that time there were no wide boar honkers so it may have been slightly louder. Opening the reed up a bit on a regular narrow bore would have been a suitable adjustment to overcome any volume issues in my opinion.

The Taylor's made atleast one double bore chanter that I know of, it is a double narrow bore also, made at a time when they were making wider bore pipes. So I'd say it was both a fasion statement and a curiosity more than anything else.

YMMVAL,

Pat.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:25 am

I have removed the posts that contributed to the flames. Let's keep this topic civil please?

I don't want to remove it permanently.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:35 am

Bump.

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:05 pm

Where did the Taylors base THEIR design from? It must have come from somewhere..Anyone have any ideas?

Chris Bayley · Post by **Chris Bayley** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:52 am

It was probably original as it is so different to anything else. Maybe the idea came from something entirly unrelated.

There was a key system for wind instruments patented at about the same time as the Taylors by Schaffner which used rectangular keys and a complex system of tracker rods - see about halfway down this page (Tayloresque pipes) http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0

They might have known about it but the two are probably not connected as the system does not seem to been applied orchestral instruments (mainly Giorgi's Flutes) until the late 1880's - perhaps Schaffner saw the Taylor's work

lordofthestrings · Post by **lordofthestrings** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:45 pm

Has anyone out here actually played a double chanter? (that is, assuming you had one from somewhere, and then got it in tune

) I would think it would be a little tricky to keep both holes covered/uncovered at the right sync. to keep from possible rude sounds (in my mind) from being produced? Any recordings of these around?

pudinka · Post by **pudinka** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:32 pm

Where did the Taylors base THEIR design from? It must have come from somewhere..Anyone have any ideas?

Perhaps "form follows function" instead of tradition? (it should!) I think I read somewhere that the big, flat keys were made to work with double bore chanters with keys...does that make sense? Someone who knows can set me straight, but aren't thier older sets more traditional looking - closer to typical/traditional keys? It would make sense that thier designs would evolve as more "daring" ideas required new solutions - like quadruple bore regulators. Perhaps they simply did what they had to do and that was that.

billh · Post by **billh** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:01 am

lordofthestrings wrote:Has anyone out here actually played a double chanter? (that is, assuming you had one from somewhere, and then got it in tune ) I would think it would be a little tricky to keep both holes covered/uncovered at the right sync. to keep from possible rude sounds (in my mind) from being produced? Any recordings of these around?

I've played a couple, one old-style one and one relatively recent vintage "wide bore concert pitch double chanter". (I seem to recall that Peter Hunter was responsible for the latter - yikes!). I wouldn't say that either was really "in tune".

Recordings - see some Leo Rowsome tracks on The Drones and The Chanters as previously noted. Surely everyone on this board owns a copy of that recording ??

(Required Listening...)

pudinka wrote: Perhaps "form follows function" instead of tradition? (it should!) I think I read somewhere that the big, flat keys were made to work with double bore chanters with keys...does that make sense? Someone who knows can set me straight, but aren't thier older sets more traditional looking - closer to typical/traditional keys? It would make sense that thier designs would evolve as more "daring" ideas required new solutions - like quadruple bore regulators. Perhaps they simply did what they had to do and that was that.

I doubt it, as the Taylor flat chanter keys look to have been derived from their regulator keys. Assuming Mark Hillmann's Taylor chanter belongs with the rest of his set, that's a case of more traditional chanter keys alongside the flat regulator keys.

The Taylors appear to have been real innovators as opposed to just adapters/adopters. DMQuinn's article "Passionate Industry" in SRSv1 is well worth reading, on this topic.

Bill

giggleswicksam · Post by **giggleswicksam** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:46 pm

I seem to recall that Peter Hunter was responsible for the latter - yikes!)

Yikes indeed, but it wasn't one of Peter's - there are none. Scary idea though.