In an effort to wrest this topic back to where it started, I just chatted with Michael Vignoles via email. He is in Cincinatti this weekend at a festival, and he is a great guy to talk to. I have a half set of his pipes that sound great...when someone else plays them other than me...
CHeers,
Eamon
Michael Vignoles Set
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RomanPiper
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fancypiper
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Reels, reels, reels, I get sick and tired of reels. They are played much too much.Donald E Baltus wrote: If then, you aren't hammering out reels with speed and accuracy within a couple or three years, you're not a "piper," you just have a set and may or may not eventually learn to f*rt out a recognizable tune at one level or another probably within your lifetime. There's nothing wrong with that at all, it's just life.
I am a jig-a-holic (don't forget the slip jigs, hop jigs, and slides) and hornpipe-o-holic.
Reels are usually played too fast to get the real "personality" of the pipes. Listen to the "party pieces" of the big pipers. Any reels besides "The Bucks"?
Also, I consider anybody bold enough to buy a set of UPs and try to play them a piper. They don't have to be fantabulous and make money from it to enjoy listening to.
Also, I don't think I ever knew an Irishman that didn't have quite a bit of blarney, and Ennis was a master at it!
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myrddinemrys
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Or . . . a troll is an evil person that runs a trebuchet
Wild Goose Studios Music, reed making and pipe making.
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Rick
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clueless..PJ wrote:Someone who starts a controversial topic and then sits back and watches everyone else go to war over it. Usually, a troll doesn't get involved beyond the initial contribution.RomanPiper wrote:What, pray tell, is a TROLL anyhow?!brescianimichele wrote:why do u think i'm a troll?
A good troll has a conversation with him/her self, dear sir.
And you'd back one or the other.
I will leave the potentials of ravaging a board in this manner to your imagination.
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Donald E Baltus
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Why would anyone think Michele is a troll? Well, initially because he posted two sound clips, the first of which sounds stylistically and even technically nothing at all like the second. It's a New-Agey, rather poorly recorded or mixed or whatever air thing that sounds like a pretty decent set of pipes being played and blown very steadily, but not all that creatively or technically impressively. The second however, is a screaming reel cut that demonstarates someone not only technically accomplished in the areas of blowing tone/pitch but the whole vernacular of tight and legato playing and full use of cuts, crans, rolls and so forth that makes one wonder two things: One, how could anyone play that well technically and expressively on such a good reed set up so well, and then go to great trouble to have that banal egg-shaker noise shuffling mindlessly along the whole time and not realize just how much it detracts from the playing (my first thought but that's me) and two, how could anyone play that *conventionally* well in all areas in the short time period and apparently total isolation proposed in connection with this level of play. Obviously we've seen credible examples of foreign-arsed savants who've made up *a* way to play the pipes in some sort of pleasant, if not impressive musical fashion in the naked wilds of off-island piping desolation, but never so mainstream and legitimately hard-core uilleann-style piping.
What I have proposed of course it the counter-argument, all probability aside based on this one example, that this speed of accomplishment is not all that unusual. I have further stated the simple fact that it does not really take seven and seven and seven years to play at that level, and there are in fact pipers all over this list playing that well and better easily under that first seven. In fact, as I've pointed out, they'd all have a set of drones and regulators going great guns a couple of years into it as well--which leaves me with the third great mystery, just why an egg shaker was considered essential and drones weren't, especially on a D major tune?
Now, a real troll puts up a sound file hoping to get praise and then plays along like he's an idiot as posters debate whether they hate his guts for being so non-chalant about playing them all into the ground in a few months of casual practice in total banishment to Thule with just a CD and a book they got at the local Renesaissance Festival, or whether they think he's just lying one way or another so they don't have to concede that it's even possible. And the better natured the guy is to the resulting heated debate the better a troll he is. If he barely communicates in the common language, so much the better--the more alien the better.
That aside, really, if somebody actually does play that well with no instruction, little effort, and only a few months time, and you're still trying to justify your own strugglings while playing reels at half tempo after fifteen years because you think it's more "expressive" and actually think Greensleeves is a part of UP playing "tradition" even as a jig, and yet are working on your fourth or fifth full set of pipes by a classic or the latest hot maker while one of these guys like Michele pulls genius out of his own arse by accident and can't even afford drones or regulators, I would think your reaction should be guilt, not jealousy. So rather than come back all dubious and miffed, see what you can do to get to the bottom of all this mystery and if it's a real person who really can play then we ought to all see about correcting the couple of things missing in his education--like not using a rattle as a backup instrument or humoring the notion that English Carols or Irish Rovers music hall ballads or New Age rambling explorationgs are serious mainstays of the pipes. To do otherwise would only hold back his progress into the full "tradition," and amount to trying to keep a true born piper down to the level of the average internet keyboard babbler.
And I think we all have to admit that's not necessarily a very high level.
What I have proposed of course it the counter-argument, all probability aside based on this one example, that this speed of accomplishment is not all that unusual. I have further stated the simple fact that it does not really take seven and seven and seven years to play at that level, and there are in fact pipers all over this list playing that well and better easily under that first seven. In fact, as I've pointed out, they'd all have a set of drones and regulators going great guns a couple of years into it as well--which leaves me with the third great mystery, just why an egg shaker was considered essential and drones weren't, especially on a D major tune?
Now, a real troll puts up a sound file hoping to get praise and then plays along like he's an idiot as posters debate whether they hate his guts for being so non-chalant about playing them all into the ground in a few months of casual practice in total banishment to Thule with just a CD and a book they got at the local Renesaissance Festival, or whether they think he's just lying one way or another so they don't have to concede that it's even possible. And the better natured the guy is to the resulting heated debate the better a troll he is. If he barely communicates in the common language, so much the better--the more alien the better.
That aside, really, if somebody actually does play that well with no instruction, little effort, and only a few months time, and you're still trying to justify your own strugglings while playing reels at half tempo after fifteen years because you think it's more "expressive" and actually think Greensleeves is a part of UP playing "tradition" even as a jig, and yet are working on your fourth or fifth full set of pipes by a classic or the latest hot maker while one of these guys like Michele pulls genius out of his own arse by accident and can't even afford drones or regulators, I would think your reaction should be guilt, not jealousy. So rather than come back all dubious and miffed, see what you can do to get to the bottom of all this mystery and if it's a real person who really can play then we ought to all see about correcting the couple of things missing in his education--like not using a rattle as a backup instrument or humoring the notion that English Carols or Irish Rovers music hall ballads or New Age rambling explorationgs are serious mainstays of the pipes. To do otherwise would only hold back his progress into the full "tradition," and amount to trying to keep a true born piper down to the level of the average internet keyboard babbler.
And I think we all have to admit that's not necessarily a very high level.
Baltus, Donald E
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Uilliam
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Royce..why do ye ruin your argument by putting in total irrelevencies?ye keep harping on about Greensleeves..which isnae even part o this thread! 
For the record and finally frae me ,Greensleeves the jig was played by my Grandfathers Band ,The Moate Ceilidhe Band, in the 20's and early 30s on the fledgling Radio Eireann broadcasting out o Athlone.
His band was very much a part o the Irish Traditional Music and played every Saturday night for a number o years giving pleasure no doubt to many thousands of the then pre TV listeners.
I know of more than one house which used to have their kitchen dances on a Saturday with the radio switched on as the only source of music for the evening.
Given that it is also transcribed in O'Neills, then your constant insistance that it is not part o the ITM scenario makes ye sound like a complete idiot.
Slipping in the term"UP" traditional means nothing, as the "UP Tradition"as ye call it, takes it music frae "ITM".
The fact that ye havenae heard a particular tune again means absolutely nothing to anyone but yerself and is not the basis for dismissal.It is obvious that ye where thinking of the English Tune when ye 1st chipped in and not the Irish jig,otherwise why bother yerself?
Not only that but it detracts frae the main argument which I would tend to agree with but as ye have highlighted this one wee point and refuse to acknowledge your apparent ignorance on the subject it makes me wonder what else is absolute rubbish and so your argument is lost in the minutae.
I couldnae give a fiddlers f*rt whether Michele is a troll o no...thats why I havenae contributed to this thread on the matter...but I'm damned if I am going to let ye dismiss a piece that my grandfather played to the enjoyment of many many more folk than would ever listen to your ensemble,as an irrelevence and not traditional Irish Music!
Maybe ye should try the piece afore ye condemn it because I don't think ye have a clue what ye are talking about with reference to this jig...your wee band might even benefit frae playing it .
Slán Agat
Uilliam
PS I think Michele is really Michael Vignoles!!! or Michele Vignoli...
Sta Attento Amici.....wouldnae be the 1st time a maker has used this forum to promote his wares now would it!!
For the record and finally frae me ,Greensleeves the jig was played by my Grandfathers Band ,The Moate Ceilidhe Band, in the 20's and early 30s on the fledgling Radio Eireann broadcasting out o Athlone.
His band was very much a part o the Irish Traditional Music and played every Saturday night for a number o years giving pleasure no doubt to many thousands of the then pre TV listeners.
I know of more than one house which used to have their kitchen dances on a Saturday with the radio switched on as the only source of music for the evening.
Given that it is also transcribed in O'Neills, then your constant insistance that it is not part o the ITM scenario makes ye sound like a complete idiot.
Slipping in the term"UP" traditional means nothing, as the "UP Tradition"as ye call it, takes it music frae "ITM".
The fact that ye havenae heard a particular tune again means absolutely nothing to anyone but yerself and is not the basis for dismissal.It is obvious that ye where thinking of the English Tune when ye 1st chipped in and not the Irish jig,otherwise why bother yerself?
Not only that but it detracts frae the main argument which I would tend to agree with but as ye have highlighted this one wee point and refuse to acknowledge your apparent ignorance on the subject it makes me wonder what else is absolute rubbish and so your argument is lost in the minutae.
I couldnae give a fiddlers f*rt whether Michele is a troll o no...thats why I havenae contributed to this thread on the matter...but I'm damned if I am going to let ye dismiss a piece that my grandfather played to the enjoyment of many many more folk than would ever listen to your ensemble,as an irrelevence and not traditional Irish Music!
Maybe ye should try the piece afore ye condemn it because I don't think ye have a clue what ye are talking about with reference to this jig...your wee band might even benefit frae playing it .
Slán Agat
Uilliam
PS I think Michele is really Michael Vignoles!!! or Michele Vignoli...
Sta Attento Amici.....wouldnae be the 1st time a maker has used this forum to promote his wares now would it!!
If ye are intersted in helping our cause to cure leprosy feel free to PM me.
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Kevin L. Rietmann
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brescianimichele
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Joseph E. Smith
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Don't let Donald E. Baltus get your goat, on this forum, it seems to be the only way he can communicate... trolling and trying our patience. Words of wisdom: "Water off a Duck's back", they come in handy when reading posts by Donald/Roycenator.brescianimichele wrote:i'm not Michael Vignoles.
you can add me in your msn contact list and u can chat with me.
i'm not a troll, i'm only a man that loves uilleann pipe.
i'm am not happy to know that u think i'm a troll. i respect u and u should respect me.
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PJ
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Hey - I got this far, then passed out for 20 minutes. Still, an improvement.Donald E Baltus wrote:Why would anyone think Michele is a troll? Well, initially because he posted two sound clips, the first of which sounds stylistically and even technically nothing at all like the second. It's a New-Agey, rather poorly recorded or mixed or whatever air thing that sounds like a pretty decent set of pipes being played and blown very steadily, but not all that creatively or technically impressively. The second however, is a screaming reel cut that demonstarates someone not only technically accomplished in the areas of blowing tone/pitch but the whole vernacular of tight and legato playing and full use of cuts, crans, rolls and so forth that makes one wonder two things: One, how could anyone play that well technically and expressively on such a good reed set up so well, and then go to great trouble to have that banal egg-shaker noise shuffling mindlessly along the whole time and not realize just how much it detracts ...
One of these days, I'll actually finish one of Donal's posts
.PJ