Seasoning without heating up?

Hans-Joerg · Post by **Hans-Joerg** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:12 am

On reading the bellows porous leather - thread : Does somebody perhaps know a recipe for seasoning bellows or bag that does not require heating up (preferably no artificial stuff like fluid condomes

)
Best,
Hans

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:18 am

there was some discussion about neoprene or liquid latex awhile back. the general consensus was, that when it worked, it worked great, but when it didn't it was a nightmare. those more experienced than I, (some with pictures) basically came to the conclusion that it should only be attempted in a very narrow set of circumstances, those being bags with suede-in/smooth-out, that have not ever been seasoned or treated with wax &c in any way before...

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:43 am

fluid condom = liquid latex

Hans, there is a soap recipe. Follow these links:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... e3f81d233c
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... e3f81d233c
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... e3f81d233c
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... e3f81d233c

Chris Bayley · Post by **Chris Bayley** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:04 am

Hans

Have recently come across a product that could be used straight from the tin and is sold in the Saddlery shops in the UK. It is called by the name 'Ko-cao-line' leather dressing and is manufactured by Carr & Day & Martin who also produce a range of saddle soaps and oils. It is guarenteed not to rot stitching. I have yet to try it on a leaky bag to see how well it performs but from the consistancy it should work.

Has anyone else tried it ?

Antaine

You are quite right to warn about the use of liquid latex (copydex and water) as if used in the wrong situation it will indeed cause more problems than it cures.

My own bags are stitched with the shiny side inside and prior to manufacture are given a coat of saddle soap that is well rubbed in to ensure airtightness and require no extra dressings at least for several years. The seam is prepared by skiving a band of the shiny surface away of around 12mm width around the edge to give a key for the flexible adhesive I use glue the bag together prior to saddle stitching. The stitch holes are made with a thin awl and the thread used is larger than the needles so that these holes are filled completely by the sewing process.

Unfortunately people will take advice from forums and other pipers without checking with either the instrument maker or the bag manufacture to see if it is a) recomended and b) suitable and because of this problems occur such as those shown in the photo's below. Before giving advice you need to know how the bag has been constructed

In the case of one of my bags the photos below show the unfortunate effects of this mixture. You will note there is nothing for it to adhere to other than the wooden parts and that it is all flaking off.

The pictures show the inside of the bag via the main stock receiver cup hole, the blowpipe stock almost completely blocked by the wretched mixture as well as a very nice clot acting as a clack valve in the neck of the bag giving airflow problems (bottom picture).

For those who do use and advise this mixture think carefully - should you really be pouring water into your expensive pipes and then to stop it sticking to itself fill the bag with french chalk or talc which blows out through reeds giving them a nice dusty coating.

I have used liquid latex thinned with ammonia solution in sealing whole animal (goat) skins on the rare occasions that I make 'foreign' bagpipes but it is applied with a brush prior to stitching.

Always contact your maker first for advice but if this is not possible then use tried and trusted methods based on wax and oil mixtures obtainable from a saddlers and check that the various mixtures will not rot stitching.

Chris

Edited for typo's

m coulter · Post by **m coulter** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:27 am

Sound advice; However if you do construct bags shiny side outwards and take care over what your doing - laytex can and does work nicely.

marcus.

benwalker · Post by **benwalker** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:47 am

Perhaps if the bag wasn't pissing air in the first place pipers wouldn't have to resort to sorting out those sort of problems in the first place.

There is some bad history to those photographs folks.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:05 pm

benwalker wrote:Perhaps if the bag wasn't pissing air in the first place pipers wouldn't have to resort to sorting out those sort of problems in the first place.

There is some bad history to those photographs folks.

... that bag one of yours Ben?

maw · Post by **maw** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:02 pm

No Joseph, it was supposedly mine that just happened to pass by Ben.

Chris Bayley, you need to be careful what you say and post in public

Be sure YOUR sins will find you out

Hans-Joerg · Post by **Hans-Joerg** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:15 am

Thanks for the links, Tony.

Chris (thanks), I guess many of us (like myself) would be very interested to read in the future about your experience with the stuff.

marcpipes, your mixture seems promising to me and seems to require no heating up, too. I guess the Whisky is for preservation. How about something cheaper (containing alcyhol)? It breaks my heart thinking about that waste of Whisky and I could think of a better use than seasoning.

Best,
Hans

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:46 am

Hans-Joerg wrote: It breaks my heart thinking about that waste of Whisky and I could think of a better use than seasoning.
Best,
Hans

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