probably blasphemy, apologies in advance

Jeff Guevin · Post by **Jeff Guevin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:52 am

Hello all,

I'm sure everyone here, myself included, thinks UPs sound amazing. I'd love to play something that sounds like that, but I can tell right now that I'll never play the pipes--too much expense, too much time investment, etc. So I figure some people will be annoyed or angered by the question, but I know this is the place to ask: is there an instrument that has a sound like the UP chanter, but is mouth blown, and doesn't include drone(s)? If I could slap a funky mouthpiece on a soprano sax body and get that sound, I'd be thrilled, but I haven't come across anything like that.

Thanks in advance!

-Jeff

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:02 am

Cheap, sounds like bagpipes and is mouthblown?

Grab yourself a Scottish GHP practice chanter. You can often find them for about $10 or so and up. Only problem is - they don't really sound anything like uilleann pipes. If you want uilleann pipe sound, there's simply no substitute for the real thing. Give Pat Sky a call. His practice sets seem to be the best thing going for those on a budget.

Jeff Guevin · Post by **Jeff Guevin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:14 am

Thanks for the tip. But would something like that be playable in a performance setting? Not that I'd necessarily want to perform on it, but I really meant to ask if there's an instrument with a similar sound, with quality and careful design.

If it's true that "there's nothing like the real thing", can you tell me why? Is there something about the airflow mechanism that can't be duplicated with human lungs?

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:22 am

Jeff, the simple answer is: Nope.

The bellows and bag are designed to supply a constant and *steady* stream of air to the chanter. The reed is also another key issue. uilleann reeds are not mouthblown, and as such last much longer than any other wet blown reed type of pipe or what have you. Also, the reed is capable of two octaves. I'm not aware of really any other pipe out there with this kind of range - though I suspect someone else here might.

Lastly, to get the sound of an uilleann pipe chanter, you need to play it on the leg, using your thigh to stop the bottom of the chanter. Without that, you'll sound much more like a GHP chanter anyway - with the sound never stopping between certain notes as it can/does on uilleann pipes.

Helpful?

piperdoc · Post by **piperdoc** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:22 am

fair question.
1. the reed does not tolerate moisture well, and the human lung adds that in abundance.
2. subtle pressure changes are necessary for many different things, the octave change being only one small aspect of proper pressure. than again, this will change daily with the reed, humidity, etc. it would be hard to duplicate this mouth blown.
3. it would be really hard to manage the above while also powering drones and regulators.
4. have you considered the sax?

meir

Bill Reeder · Post by **Bill Reeder** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:27 am

The term "practice set" can be misleading. It consists of a bona fide chanter, bag and bellows. It is completely appropriate for performance. I think I recall the piper in Black 47 playing a practice set in their gigs in Dublin, Ohio a few years ago. It would work out just fine, especially in a session situation where you might not want to have the drones and regulators going anyway.

biliii · Post by **biliii** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:28 am

.....

Jeff Guevin · Post by **Jeff Guevin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:31 am

Brian, yes, helpful!

piperdoc wrote:fair question.
1. the reed does not tolerate moisture well, and the human lung adds that in abundance.
2. subtle pressure changes are necessary for many different things, the octave change being only one small aspect of proper pressure. than again, this will change daily with the reed, humidity, etc. it would be hard to duplicate this mouth blown.
3. it would be really hard to manage the above while also powering drones and regulators.
4. have you considered the sax?

meir

Meir, thanks for your response.

1. Make sense. If a dry reed is necessary for that sound, then I may be at a dead end!
2. There a lot of subtleties of pressure, support, etc., that woodwind (sax, oboe, bassoon) players have to worry about, and they definitely have to worry about humidity, the particular reed, and so on.
3. It was just the chanter sound I was wondering about.
4. Yeah, I can play some alto sax, actually. Doesn't really sound the same, though, does it?

Edit: Thanks, bil and Bill, that really spells it out!

maw · Post by **maw** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:43 am

Have yer tried a Lawton gold plated mouthpiece or an Otto Link metal mouthpiece for your alto or soprano? might give a little more crispness but at the end of the day you'll just have to invest in a set of UPs or hire your own personal piper

No E · Post by **No E** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:13 pm

If there was something else that sounded like uilleann pipes do you think we'd be wrestling with these monsters?

You can always hire a piper.

No E

djm · Post by **djm** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:21 pm

I would add one more point to the uniqueness of a UP chanter: the coming and going of the notes. You couldn't really work up a synth patch to duplicate the whole chanter, as each note has its own sound, its own loudness, and its own characteristics when played. You could possibly sample each note individually, but you still wouldn't be able to imitate the UP chanter's playing charateristics (part of the sound) very believably on a keyboard.

A practise set is just what you want. The Pat Sky beginner's practise set should meet your needs for inexpensiveness. And just to piss Brian off, check out David Daye's plastic Penny chanters as well.

djm

Jeff Guevin · Post by **Jeff Guevin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:21 pm

No E wrote:You can always hire a piper.

You mean, to follow me around to serenade me where e'er I go? But I'm a busy man, and I think I'd have to also rent an electric wheelchair or go-cart or something so my piper could keep playing while I run my errands. Oh wait, perhaps I could also hire a burly caber-thrower to cart my piper around in a wheelbarrow.

Well, thanks for the input. I know that if I asked my question over in the whistle forum, someone would've said "have you tried the kazoo?". Hmmm...

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:52 pm

oboe?

nah, still not right, but I think it sounds more like UP than GHB

but then for expense and effort you might as well just start on the pipes