How important is B flat key?

Baen · Post by **Baen** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:12 pm

I've decided to get all the keys on my set-to-be, but the maker said that the B flat key position can compromise the placement of the F natural key--in terms of ease of using the F key. The F key has to be moved further forward if the B key is added, and this makes for a less comfortable playing position for the F key.

How often is the B flat key used? The maker said that he uses the F natural key quite a bit, whereas he nevers uses the B flat key. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

lemonsquash · Post by **lemonsquash** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:22 pm

Valencia Harbour, Ennis style.

Baen · Post by **Baen** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:31 pm

Sorry, forgot to mention that it's a concert pitch set.

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:30 pm

One can achieve a Bflat on some chanters using a cheat fingering for this note. For these chanters the note can be gained by covering all the holes and using the back Cnatural key. Sometimes you have to vent with a finger or two to get the note in pitch. I recommend getting all the keys you want NOW while the chanter is being made and BEFORE it is reeded. Simply adding a key later can bollox up the works - intonation wise.

two bits

t

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:40 pm

I have just an F and C keys on my concert chanter, so far haven't felt stifled...

I'll leave the A major tunes to the fiddles or switch to mandolin...

M

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:24 am

Bb is also reached by lifting only your LH 2nd finger (middle finger?). Well on my chanter it does............

The more keys, the more your chanter resembles a 'gynaecological instrument for operating on mutant woman' (courtesy of 'Dead Ringers').

Keep it symple, keep it playne.............

Alan

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:36 am

"I'll leave the A major tunes to the fiddles or switch to mandolin... "

There are some really fun tunes in A maj. that don't have G# in them. Happy, happy tunes. I don't have the exact names on two that I play alot but one is kinda like an A maj Kesh Jig, the other I think is "The Rover". You can also get away with "Out on the Ocean" if you fudge the last part a little.

t

tompipes · Post by **tompipes** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:08 pm

It's only important if your tune collection includes lots of tunes in f major, g minor. There are plenty of tunes that have accidentals too.
But placement is a problem.
The only pipe-maker that puts that Bb key in a workable place is Andreas Rogge.
He puts the key right beside the C natural key within easy access to the thumb.
Trying to hit the key with the left hand pinky can be a pain.
But if it is all you have you will be suprised what you will get used to.

Tommy

billh · Post by **billh** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:13 am

[quote="tompipes"]
Trying to hit the key with the left hand pinky can be a pain./quote]

Must depend on key length and your own hand shape.
The Bflat key seems to have been considered essential to Maurice Coyne, his chanters all seem to have it, even when there's no Gsharp. Make you wonder a bit about what people were playing.
If the Bflat interferes with the F, that suggests that the F key in question is the "long F" as opposed to the "short F". The Coynes seemed to use the short F, activated by the right hand middle finger. Same for Kenna I think.
If you're ordering a new chanter, I'd strongly suggest either visiting the maker in person or sending several photos and silhouettes of your hands, so that key touches can be adjusted to put them in just the right spot for you. I don't see a good reason why Bflat should be hard to reach with your left pinky. I have a Bflat on my C# chanter, I don't use it much, but it's certainly easy enough to reach.

- Bill

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:19 am

At first I always blamed my own ineptness for all my problems, but it wasn't until I demonstrated to my pipemaker the difficulties I was having reaching the keys intended for the upper hand pinky finger that I understood what was going wrong. He had no problems reaching them. It wasn't until we compared hand sizes that we saw that his pinky finger is only a half-inch shorter than his third finger, whereas mine is an inch and a quarter shorter than my third finger.

BillH is quite right. Make sure your pipemaker makes the keys to fit your own hand shape. It can be significant.

djm

rorybbellows · Post by **rorybbellows** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:06 pm

Who is the maker anyway .Sounds like he doesn.t want to go to the trouble to fit the Bb key anyway.Has anyone seen a chanter with a reversed fnat key this leaves loads of room for said key .

RORY

Evertjan 't Hart · Post by **Evertjan 't Hart** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:49 pm

Go for all the keys you can get, you never know when you will need them.
But make sure that the f nat and b flat are reversed so you can play the b flat key with your thumb. A few weeks ago I was working on a demo with Roy Gullane and he wanted to do a song in D minor. Thanks to the B flat and F nat keys this was not a problem at all.
Warning the song is Scottish and there is guitar in it

Pipes after the second verse. The chanter is not my Williams I switched for this recording to one of my own make.

http://www.flingmusic.com/capernum.mp3

Enjoy,
Evertjan

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:03 pm

Nice stuff Evertjan, tastefully done.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:18 pm

I think Kynch has his Bb sweep to the front to play with his pinky finger.

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:20 pm

RoryB, I didn't say he wouldn't change the keys, simply that he didn't appreciate how great the difference would be. The maker is Joe Kennedy, and he is very accommodating to all my requests.

djm