Second octave e not sounding cleanly
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Second octave e not sounding cleanly
Other than adding tape to ghost e and inserting a rush are there other steps worth trying?
- pancelticpiper
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Re: Second octave e not sounding cleanly
What do you mean "cleanly"?
There are at least three variables:
1) pitch, the note being too sharp or too flat.
2) timbre, the note having a non-normal tone, perhaps akin to "hard bottom D".
3) attack, the note being difficult to start, but once achieved has normal timbre and pitch.
I used to have a chanter/reed combination where 2nd octave E just wouldn't sound if I just lifted my fingers, no matter what pressure I tried.
It had a growly sound sort of like Hard Bottom D. The good news was that it was right in tune! Not flat like 2nd octave E often is.
I found that I needed to start the note by "slurring" up to it, both fingers together. Then the note had a normal tone.
I only played that chanter/reed combination for a short while, but the habit of always slurring up to 2nd octave E has stayed with me.
There are at least three variables:
1) pitch, the note being too sharp or too flat.
2) timbre, the note having a non-normal tone, perhaps akin to "hard bottom D".
3) attack, the note being difficult to start, but once achieved has normal timbre and pitch.
I used to have a chanter/reed combination where 2nd octave E just wouldn't sound if I just lifted my fingers, no matter what pressure I tried.
It had a growly sound sort of like Hard Bottom D. The good news was that it was right in tune! Not flat like 2nd octave E often is.
I found that I needed to start the note by "slurring" up to it, both fingers together. Then the note had a normal tone.
I only played that chanter/reed combination for a short while, but the habit of always slurring up to 2nd octave E has stayed with me.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
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Re: Second octave e not sounding cleanly
'2) timbre, the note having a non-normal tone, perhaps akin to "hard bottom D".'
The sound is growly and indistinct.
The sound is growly and indistinct.
- pudinka
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Re: Second octave e not sounding cleanly
I've had the same thing happen for a few years now, but it only happens in the summer months (May-Oct, where I live) and it only happens with the reeds I've made - which is the real problem.
The 2nd E is still approachable with the right tricks, but simply playing it yields what sounds like a growling, hard bottom D, screaming without control.
Recently, I tried a shorter reed that I'd made a few month ago (that I didn't think would play) with a very "blunt" looking V scrape, and it does not have the same problem. It's a bit dead sounding - still needs finishing work - but it works normally. I plan to try making another with a similar scrape to see what happens, but I haven't had the time.
The 2nd E is still approachable with the right tricks, but simply playing it yields what sounds like a growling, hard bottom D, screaming without control.
Recently, I tried a shorter reed that I'd made a few month ago (that I didn't think would play) with a very "blunt" looking V scrape, and it does not have the same problem. It's a bit dead sounding - still needs finishing work - but it works normally. I plan to try making another with a similar scrape to see what happens, but I haven't had the time.
It's true that you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar - but a big, steaming pile works best of all.
- pancelticpiper
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Re: Second octave e not sounding cleanly
Have you tried different ways of starting the note? Slurring up to it rather than lifting the fingers straight off?
That's the only thing I found that worked on that chanter/reed I used to play.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
- myrddinemrys
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Re: Second octave e not sounding cleanly
From Pat Sky's book:
Try these solutions in order, as they scale from least destructive to most destructive.Problem:
There is a squawk in the 2nd octave E
Play it: As you go to the high E try increasing the pressure and see if the squawk goes away,
if it does then learn to use this technique. The E should take the same amount of pressure as
the back D.
More tape: First take Seth’s advice above, if that does not work then place a bit of tape over
the Eb hole.
Try a rush: Take a short piece of wire/rush and cut it to length so the wire extends almost to
the F# hole, and insert it into the bell of the chanter.
Alter the staple: If you have tried the above and the 2nd octave still squawks you can try to rebind
the reed and alter the staple. Wrap several rounds of string around the head, tie it off and
remove all of the binding from the reed. Next take the staple and with a pair of pliers close the
eye of the staple a few thousands. Rebind the reed with new binding. Make sure that you mark
the staple so that you replace the reed head in its exact previous position.
NOTE: Some say that the reeds that have a “Tone Chamber” avoid the problems with the E
note. I have not verified this.
Wild Goose Studios Music, reed making and pipe making.
- oleorezinator
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Re: Second octave e not sounding cleanly
Let us hear what you mean.gentlemanpiper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:46 am Other than adding tape to ghost e and inserting a rush are there other steps worth trying?
Information is not knowledge.
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Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love.
Love is not music. Music is the best.
- Frank Zappa
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Re: Second octave e not sounding cleanly
For ddx, how is the bottom D?
Can you get both normal and hard bottom D ok?
I ask this because the lower scrape of the reed can affect the E (e.g. lower scrape is too thick, or unabalanced, or uneven, etc) making the note difficult.
These things can be more obvious in the 2nd octave, but the 1st octave E and bottom D might suggest more scraping required.
Ultimately, the main question might be - has the chanter ever had an acceptable 2nd E?
M
Can you get both normal and hard bottom D ok?
I ask this because the lower scrape of the reed can affect the E (e.g. lower scrape is too thick, or unabalanced, or uneven, etc) making the note difficult.
These things can be more obvious in the 2nd octave, but the 1st octave E and bottom D might suggest more scraping required.
Ultimately, the main question might be - has the chanter ever had an acceptable 2nd E?
M