Drones and Air Supply

[Murk]

Hey everyone -

I recently got my full set back in early July, and after adjusting to the new weight and getting to know the new chanter a bit I'm starting to tackle throwing the drones in. Trouble is that I'm having trouble keeping the drones stable while at the same time supplying enough air to my chanter.

Now, I understand that part of this is just learning how to keep an even and consistent pressure of the sort that wasn't necessary on the practice set - but it honestly feels more than that. When the drones are going I am pumping probably twice as much - which I guess is to be expected. However, I have a lot of trouble keeping the second octave in the chanter, and I'm exerting so much force trying to keep the pressure up while playing any tune with the drones that I become a sweaty mess halfway through. The set is a Childress D - which means that the chanter is going to be a touch more stiff and bright than other chanters I've heard - and there's not much I can do about that right now (I think. Maybe some of you can correct me.) as closing the reed down a bit makes for a really weak nasally tone that doesn't sound "right". I'm left wondering if there's a way to make the drones take less from my air supply? Any words of wisdom here? I absolutely love the drones. I love their sound. I love the harmonics and the buzz. It just feels good. But right now my set is so physical to play I feel there has to be a maladjustment somewhere.

Even my Highland Pipes weren't this demanding of air.

[benoit trémolières]

As usual: everything is coming from the reeds!
And as usual: it is difficult to explain what to do by writing.
Do'nt worry: what you describe is not the normal way of working for the drones. This will be fixed, soon or late.
The main secret of their stability and air needs lies in the bend and curve you give to the tongue.Nearly every reed can be fixed by this mean.
You can get this proper shape by forcing it and warming it, but, if you do'nt make reeds yourself, there's some risks to kill them.
You need the help of a confirmed maker.

[Mr.Gumby]

There is really no way of telling what is wrong or if there's anything wrong at all. The way you describe it, that's not the way it should be but I remember having a student adding the drones and she was struggling in a similar way to what you describe. When I tried the set myself i was airtight, not using a lot of air and easy to play. But then again, you may well be describing a poorly balanced/set up set of pipes. Let a piper who can play well assess the set.

In the meantime you should check the set for airtightness, no air should be going anywhere when the drones are shut off and the chanter is closed. Then try practice with perhaps one or two drones going for starters and see how you go with that.

Don't mess with reeds before you know if there's a problem, know what the problem is and know what to do about it.

As they say, it's dark and lonesome work.

[geoff wooff]

By the description of the way you set plays I suggest your chanter reed is probably too hard to blow. This is a common fault that happens if that reed was made for a practice set . It is easy , and perhaps safer, to send out a practice set with a very strong reed; this allows the novice to get used to the bellows action whilst safeguarding the reed from over zealous pumping and clumbsy actions.

The problem begins when the drones are added without adjusting that 'practice set' chanter reed.

I am not saying this IS your problem , it could be leaks, it could be drone reeds that suck too much air... but it is a possible and quite likely cause.

It should not be like this. One should be able to play for hours in complete comfort.

Good luck, and do either consult your maker or find an experienced piper near you to get a second opinion.

Geoff.

[Murk]

Thanks all. I'll continue hammering away with maybe one or two drones and see if things get better. I'm suspicious that the issue is the chanter - as it requires a higher pressure than I was used to with the practice set to play.

There is really no way of telling what is wrong or if there's anything wrong at all. The way you describe it, that's not the way it should be but I remember having a student adding the drones and she was struggling in a similar way to what you describe. When I tried the set myself i was airtight, not using a lot of air and easy to play. But then again, you may well be describing a poorly balanced/set up set of pipes. Let a piper who can play well assess the set.

Thanks Mr. G. I've checked the seal, and all seems OK on that front. I realize that I may have mischaracterized the problem initially. It's not overly challenging to keep the bag stocked with air, it's just that everything seems to operate at a high pressure threshold. The chanter and drones have a seemingly strict and small-ish "window" (if that makes sense) up in the higher tier of pressure, and it's just quite difficult for me to maintain that consistently.

Like I said, I'll keep practicing until my next round of lessons roll up! Maybe I can figure something out or maybe I just need to give it time.

[bcullen]

I don't know if this is any help: My drones were too loud and out of balance with the chanter and also took a lot of air. I added a dob of sealing wax to the drone reeds and re tuned Playing is now a lot easier and the sound is balanced and steady. I don't get those surges from the drones in the 2nd octave. But I need to know the tune I am playing inside out and back to front for that ease of playing to happen. I have just finished making, fitting and messing around with a tenor regulator. Surprisingly the effect on the bellows is hardly noticeable might have something to do with the type of reed.

Bryan

[Mr.Gumby]

It's not overly challenging to keep the bag stocked with air, it's just that everything seems to operate at a high pressure threshold.

Sometimes, when relatively new to it, it appears hard to distinguish between the one and the other. The student I mentioned above was really struggling with the pressure/airflow but when I tried her pipes (Mickey Dunne half set) they were really easy to play and not taking a lot of air at all. Playing technique, bag-control, bag/bellows coordination all play a role in this, and taken together it's hard to give a long distance diagnosis. There are a few likely suspects but without actually having the set present, it's really guesswork.

Just make sure the set is perfectly airtight, also make sure you're hitting your octaves the way you should, not like some glorified whistleplayer by just increasing the pressure in order to hit the high octave. It's also not uncommon for a new-ish player to be 'afraid' of the octave and hit it with a lot more pressure than really necessary, which also adds another layer of uncertainty about what is really going on. You may be doing everything right but then again, there's really no way of telling from a distance.

[pudinka]

I don't know if this is any help: My drones were too loud and out of balance with the chanter and also took a lot of air. I added a dob of sealing wax to the drone reeds and re tuned Playing is now a lot easier and the sound is balanced and steady.

Where did you add the wax? If to the end of the tongue - did that made them quieter? (deeper, certainly) Did you mean to the lower end of the reed to reduce air flow? I'm curious...

Murk - have you tried taping the ends of the vents a bit to see if it helps - 'half-hole' the end of the drone? I had some that I could not control no matter how much I messed with them and, out of frustration, just tried covering the very ends of the drones with tape and they suddenly behaved better. I assumed it helped to regulate pressure - reduce the airflow - likely the bores were too big...don't know for sure.

[bcullen]

don't know if this is any help: My drones were too loud and out of balance with the chanter and also took a lot of air. I added a dob of sealing wax to the drone reeds and re tuned Playing is now a lot easier and the sound is balanced and steady.

I add the wax to the tips (cane drone reeds)this flatens the pitch so I raise the drone bridle. The result is a mellower sound with less loss of air as the reed is stronger. Also it pays to put a nice dob of wax on as this can be sanded down and a balance between sound and playability can be achieved."Works for me". Oh yeah some pipers use bluetac but it can drop off and ends up in the stock, wax was the better option
Another interesting point was tuning the tenor regulator to the drone so the intervals had a temperance. WHAT A strange machine.

Bryan

[mike delta]

Hi Murk,
Take a step back my friend before carrying out any adjustments that may compound the issue.
As suggested check for air tightness with drones switched off.
Spend a session on the chanter only. Just to get used to the playing pressure again.
Plug the ends of the bass and baritone drones. In fact plug all 3 drones and operate the drone switch just to ensure no air is escaping from the wrappings.
Introduce the tenor drone for a few practice sessions until you can play comfortably with that and the chanter and hit the octaves easily.
Once you are playing easily introduce the baritone. If you are struggling at that point then you really do need to seek out at least an intermediate player for a second opinion. Trying to adjust anything based on guess work will only add more tears (and possible expense).
Oh, and don't be hard on yourself. It's all something we have been through.
Good luck
Mike

[BzzzzT]

I am just speaking in general but here is how I go about setting up drones for myself and others and my opinion on how I like to set them up.

NOTE: Setting up drones is a pain IMHO. So don't worry if it is difficult and takes hours of your time, driving your crazy making you an angry mess. This is just part of playing the pipes Now let the fun begin!

#1

The most important thing is STABILITY. If every single one of your drones is not stable, your set will always seem out of tune. This will drive you crazy and you just might go insane and your set will sound like @#$^. Isolate one drone. I like to start with the tenor. It should not waver with pressure changes. Check each drone. Be ruthless, don't except compromises or “it just slightly wavers.” If it is not stable, it is useless. If you cant fix it, go on the internet and learn to make a drone reed and throw the old one in the trash or use the body with a new tongue.

#2

Efficiency is VERY important. Playing the drones should not require much if any effort if you set them up properly. Efficiency translates into how much air they draw. It should not feel like someone took a shotgun to your bag. Check your set with soapy water first. Leaks will give you bubbles. Also go over ALL joints on the set with cotton thread as needed. Don't be lazy about this. Also, check the orientation of your flap vales. They should face down. After this, test each reed for air. If the reed draws too much air close the tongue a bit. If it still draws too much air after many adjustments it is useless. Throw it away of use the body with a new tongue. Conditions #1 and #2 must be met. Don't accept compromises. When playing the chanter with the drones it should only require a little more air and hardly any more effort. I play with my drones on all the time because they are comfortable.

#3

The black art of drones is how they sound. I suspect good drones have a nice blend of 2nd and a little 3rd order harmonics for growl??? You don't want them to overpower the chanter, have a dull lifeless tone or sound like a lawnmower. Some reeds just sound better than others. The chanter and drones form a complex harmonic blend. Spend time on #1 and #2 and then work on #3 as your time and sanity permits.

As noted by others. Make sure your chanter reed is not too stiff. If it is a new reed, it will need to be played in. Reeds that start out soft/easy generally die or develop wimpy unstable back Ds. Playing in a reed cane take weeks or months and your drones may need to take a break till the reed eases up. Playing in reeds stinks. The reed should just be hard at first and not a murderous thing that will tear your rotator cuff apart.

I hope this helps a bit.

Have fun!

[benoit trémolières]

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