Cracking Cane

[geoff wooff]

if you don't want to use water, then cane is somewhat thermosetting.

Sam is absolutely correct and this forum would be better served if certain people did not try to 'score points' or 'boost their number of posts score' by adding silly comments to the thread. I have seen several NSP makers and also a UP maker use this technique time and time again. Not Sam in this case but nice to know he knows of this technique. It is also used by woodwind reed makers

John

In my early days at reed making I used a method that was given to me ( by I cannot remember who),which involved heat... it goes like this:-

The reeds were bound with Hemp or Flax thread that was coated in Pitch , It was not too important to bind very tightly because the next stage was to coat the binding with Shelac (in the form of French Polish) and set fire to it, holding the reed by the head and turning it so that the heat of the flames of the burning alcohol warmed the Pitch evenly.... of course holding the reed between finger and thumb prevented the cane from catching fire (most times) but things would get a little warm.
When the flames had gone out the next stage was to roll the reed between your palms to amalgamate the threads of the binding and the softened Pitch.
The result was a very hard and tight binding which, perhaps due to its rigidity, was thought to lessen the possible vibration damping effect of a softer type of binding.

I cannot remember when or why I stopped using this method and if I noticed any tonal différences... I certainly did not encounter much Cracking even when using the Boat shaped tails.

[myrddinemrys]

I haven't thought of the heat-setting process contributing to prevention of cracking, but David Daye's wet method employs using heat to accelerate the setting process, during which cracking can occur, and I've had it happen to me. I use Garcia, which is from Argentina. Tough stuff, and it works well, but I've had some of it crack here and there. I'm not sure that it matters on the kind of cane, but I do a few things to mitigate cracking:

--Tone Chamber
--Wine bottle shape
--Chamfer the tails

If something cracks, I just disassemble and get a new slip. No biggie.

[bobkeenan]

Thanks for the suggestions. My problem happens in a couple of places. One is when i wind it on the staple. I do wet the tails a bit and do a light wrap followed by a final tight one. But my tails are triangular with a bit of sanding the corners. I bet boat tailing would help with cracking there and maybe an extra wrapping stage. I think i will stay away from the flame techniques.

The other problem is when i am doing the scrape. Usually when i am sanding the pressure of my finger will collapse the cane with a crack. I think the cure for that is to be more light handed.

I tried soaking the entire slip several times during the whole process. Well i could tell that i was no where near cracking with that but.... When i bound the head prior to winding on the staple. The lips did not maintain any gap. After winding and then removing the binding, doing the scraping.... Still no gap. I guess i could use a bridle to force it open but that cant be good?
So i am probably not using anything close to the correct "wet method".

[myrddinemrys]

definitely be more light handed on the sanding. "Let the sandpaper do the work" should be your motto here. That, or be more savvy with your scraping skills, at which point "Let the knife do the work".

[Sam L]

Rory. What is your problem with me?

Geoff - that sounds similar but not quite the same as Peter's method, which involved green hermetite gasket sealant and setting the reed on fire, with a plug in between the lips to make the reed very open, so the bridle would work hard to close it down and there would be no leaks between the sides. "Thompson's disease"!

I just received a chanter here with a reed made in Peter's method by a fellow in Ireland. Works well.

Here's an experiment for you Rorz. Get a drone reed and hold the tongue very open. Apply some heat from a gas lighter. Wait a mo. Let go. If I'm right, you'll have a very open reed that won't play any more. If you are right it will make no difference. Try it with your best bass drone reed why not . . .

I got the heat method from Benedict at a reedmaking class in Dublin. He said you can use heat to speed up the process that will happen naturally over time, he implied that it wasn't as good.

Actually John, I do use heat somewhat - changed my methods. Thanks for corroborating though

[BzzzzT]

Bob,

I don't think your problem has to do with your cane. I use Sampson can exclusively, only having maybe 1 out of 20 reeds crack when binding. If I do have a crack, it is almost always because of some defect within the cane itself. I have experimented with heat and water but I don't really see the need for them personally. My reeds are dry as a bone and stay at room temperature when I make them. My technique revolves around speed. I want to get as many reeds made as possible, while still maintaining quality. I personally don't like extra steps and I prefer to have edge tools do almost all the work. Sandpaper can be dusty and slow. If you tools edges are fine you can get them razor sharp by running the edge against leather treated with chrome polish, jeweler's rouge etc. A dowel or rod, with the treated leather is handy for incannel gouges.

I think your issue has to do with leaving too much material on your slips. Let me explain. First how much material is on the back of your slip (the tails). If you leave too much material in the tails where the staple lies; it can be detrimental to the reed, ultimately making it prone to crack. Too much pith puts increased pressure on the front of the slip. The extra material increases the tension on the front of the reed when bound to the staple. The tension can be too great, having the effect of cracking the reed, causing it to close or killing response and tone by not allowing the reed to vibrate freely. I would experiment by creating a staple “bed”. You can do this by taking a smaller gouge and removing some more material where the staple lies. Also be sure to let the staple “tell you” where it wants to end up, don't force it too far into the slip. The second problem is created by leaving too much material on your slip overall. Try cutting or sanding a preliminary scrape; while also, removing the hard exterior from the sides of the tails. The less material you have overall, the less prone the reed will be to crack. I always work my slips as much as I can before binding. When binding you want to bind the reed till it closes and don't try to force the blades closed with too much pressure. Leave the reed for several days and come back and retie. Your binding should be much lower. This relieves tension (good for longevity) and I believe helps the reed to freely vibrate increasing tone. You do need to have some tension on the blades, too little and you also get a poor reed. You just have to experiment and make observations; I think you can solve this problem with just a few simple adjustments. I had the same problems with cracking starting out.


- Jason

[rorybbellows]

The shoulders may be to narrow and so have to bend more for them to meet.
As for heating the staple, that is the method the devil uses as the reeds are forged in hell, not recommended for mere mortals.
RORY