It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
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The purpose of this forum is to provide a place for people who are interested in the Irish language and various Celtic languages to discuss them, to practice them, and to share information about them, particularly (but not exclusively) in the context of traditional music and culture.
This is not a "translation forum," per se, though translation requests may occasionally be honored at the discretion of the moderators. If you're seeking a one-time translation for something like a tattoo, engraving, wedding vow, or other such purpose, we strongly recommend that you visit our friends at ILF: http://irishlearner.awyr.com
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It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
See above. Can anyone explain to me what the grave mark, as compared to the acute mark, should imply to anyone attempting to pronounce Scots Gaelic?
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
Same as Irish fáda, I think. Orthographic convention, nothing more.
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
But, Gàidhlig has both. Well, I'm pretty sure I've seen both. Hence my trepidation.MTGuru wrote:Same as Irish fáda, I think. Orthographic convention, nothing more.
Doing a search for examples...
Aha. According to Wikipedia:
Looks like the same function as the Irish fada, then. But I vaguely recall some info online that there was a difference, but maybe that was just misinformation.[Scots] Gaelic vowels can have a grave accent, with the letters à, è, ì, ò, ù. Traditional spelling also uses the acute accent on the letters á, é and ó, but texts which follow the spelling reform only use the grave.
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
well Im no linguist, nor fluent, but;
Grave accent denotes a long vowel.
Usually these days, the acute accent is omitted in print, If I recall correctly.
Grave accent denotes a long vowel.
Usually these days, the acute accent is omitted in print, If I recall correctly.
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
If Scottish Gaelic ever used the acute accent, it doesn't anymore. In fact, that's one clear way to tell which you're looking at...if you see a grave accent, it's Scottish Gaelic, if you see an acute accent, it's Irish (there are other markers too, of course, but that one's a clear giveaway).
I'm afraid I can't tell you how the grave accent is pronounced in Gaelic vs. the acute accent in Irish. The pronunciation of the two languages is just too different.
Redwolf
I'm afraid I can't tell you how the grave accent is pronounced in Gaelic vs. the acute accent in Irish. The pronunciation of the two languages is just too different.
Redwolf
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
You can find a thorough answer to your query here:
http://www.akerbeltz.org/fuaimean/fuaimreagan.htm
Scottish Gaelic traditionally used the grave mark on all vowels, but the acute mark only on "e" and "o." The sound samples in the above link bear out that there is a difference in the vowel quality of ò vs. ó, etc.
I think I remember reading that the acute accent was phased out of usage in education in the 1980s, as part of attempts to reform the orthography of the language. You rarely see it used anymore, and like the Irish fada, the grave often is used incorrectly or accidentally omitted, which can dramatically change the meaning of the word. You do still see the acute accent crop up in certain places, e.g. cèol mór, etc.
The Akerbeltz site is also a wonderful resource for de-mystifying Gaelic grammar, by the way. Highly recommended.
http://www.akerbeltz.org/fuaimean/fuaimreagan.htm
Scottish Gaelic traditionally used the grave mark on all vowels, but the acute mark only on "e" and "o." The sound samples in the above link bear out that there is a difference in the vowel quality of ò vs. ó, etc.
I think I remember reading that the acute accent was phased out of usage in education in the 1980s, as part of attempts to reform the orthography of the language. You rarely see it used anymore, and like the Irish fada, the grave often is used incorrectly or accidentally omitted, which can dramatically change the meaning of the word. You do still see the acute accent crop up in certain places, e.g. cèol mór, etc.
The Akerbeltz site is also a wonderful resource for de-mystifying Gaelic grammar, by the way. Highly recommended.
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
It tends to be either beginners or people with no Irish at all that abuse the fada. It's really kind of hard to abuse it too much if you know how the words are pronounced, as it makes a distinct difference to the vowel sound:
Seán: A man's name. Pronounced "Shawn" (rhymes with "pawn")
Séan: A sign or omen. Pronounced "Shayn" (rhymes with "pain")
Sean: A prefix meaning "old." Pronounced "Shan" (rhymes with "can")
It does get to be a problem, though, in countries that don't allow diacritic marks on official documents.
Redwolf
Seán: A man's name. Pronounced "Shawn" (rhymes with "pawn")
Séan: A sign or omen. Pronounced "Shayn" (rhymes with "pain")
Sean: A prefix meaning "old." Pronounced "Shan" (rhymes with "can")
It does get to be a problem, though, in countries that don't allow diacritic marks on official documents.
Redwolf
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
Thanks much, all!The Sporting Pitchfork wrote:You can find a thorough answer to your query here:
http://www.akerbeltz.org/fuaimean/fuaimreagan.htm
Scottish Gaelic traditionally used the grave mark on all vowels, but the acute mark only on "e" and "o." The sound samples in the above link bear out that there is a difference in the vowel quality of ò vs. ó, etc.
I think I remember reading that the acute accent was phased out of usage in education in the 1980s, as part of attempts to reform the orthography of the language. You rarely see it used anymore, and like the Irish fada, the grave often is used incorrectly or accidentally omitted, which can dramatically change the meaning of the word. You do still see the acute accent crop up in certain places, e.g. cèol mór, etc.
The Akerbeltz site is also a wonderful resource for de-mystifying Gaelic grammar, by the way. Highly recommended.
I mean - Tapadh leibh.
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- Nanohedron
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
One thing's for sure: no matter how crazy Irish and Scots Gaelic initially seem to the English-oriented reader, at least their orthographies are pretty dependably consistent, unlike certain languages I could mention.
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
That is definitely a plus. While Irish has its "exceptions" too, it's nothing like English. I'm often amazed at people who are able to learn English as a second language...it must be a right bugger of a language for a learner.Nanohedron wrote:One thing's for sure: no matter how crazy Irish and Scots Gaelic initially seem to the English-oriented reader, at least their orthographies are pretty dependably consistent, unlike certain languages I could mention.
And Irish only has 11 irregular verbs! How cool is that! I keep thinking that "The Eleven Irregulars" would be a cool name for an off-beat trad band.
Redwolf
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Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
I used to imagine so, too ... Until I started teaching ESL/EFL (English as a Second / Foreign Language) for many years. My students generally reported that English spelling was not a huge problem, and their written work backed that up. Go figure.Redwolf wrote:I'm often amazed at people who are able to learn English as a second language...it must be a right bugger of a language for a learner.
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
Re: It Had to Happen: Question abt. Scots Gàidhlig
Great example Redwolf.Redwolf wrote: Seán: A man's name. Pronounced "Shawn" (rhymes with "pawn")
Séan: A sign or omen. Pronounced "Shayn" (rhymes with "pain")
Sean: A prefix meaning "old." Pronounced "Shan" (rhymes with "can")
Redwolf