Hybrid instrument questions

[Thinker]

All,

I'm interested in modifying a musical instrument but I have no experience with this sort of thing. There are some issues that it sounds like people here might be able to explain, and it may even be possible that what I have in mind has already been tried by some here.

Because of some medical problems, I have enough difficulty with both blowhole and reeds that I'll probably never be able to master them (blowholes in particular). And as far as the brasses are concerned, not in this lifetime. Still, I like the versatility that's possible with some of the mainstream woodwinds. I figure that I might be able to accomplish enough to satisfy me by attaching a fipple mouthpiece to another instrument (I know this idea has come up before). The biggest problem here seems to be acquiring fipple mouthpieces. It looks like there's no one that sells them separate from the whistle, and the various brands of whistle don't tell you what the diameter of the pipe at the mouthpiece end is. So how does one acquire the right fipple mouthpiece aside from buying a dozen or so whistles until you're lucky enough to hit on one of the right size?

I'm interested in trying this with both concert flute and clarinet. Clarinet in particular. I've read that putting a fipple mouthpiece on a flute reduces it to being able to play only 2 octaves, which is a bit of a disappointment. It seems like this may have something to do with the difference between playing woodwinds that function like "open pipes" and "closed pipes", but I'm not too clear on that, beyond some of the basic physics involved, 'cause a flute is closed on one end too. From the construction of a clarinet, I'm guessing that it wouldn't suffer from this sort of embarrassment. Then again, if this could work, someone would already be selling them by now. My clarinet has a 7/8" opening, so my best bet there is probably to get a mouthpiece with a 3/4" diameter and cork it to fit the clarinet. Or put it on a 3/4" pipe and cork that. Is this likely to work, or am I just whistling into the wind, so to speak?

Of course if I do get a whistle for the mouthpiece, I'll be trying it out as a whistle too. If so, I have two concerns (other than diameter) regarding which whistle to get. First, I'll be playing at night with other people sleeping near, so if I take up the whistle I need about the quietest whistle ever made. Second, I understand that to get the second octave (or even a third) you have to blow harder. How hard? This might be an issue for me. What causes a whistle to require a small vs. large change in air pressure to jump to the next octave?

OK... that's probably enough questions to last a few weeks. I suspect that in the long run I'm going to wind up with the ocarina, but I don't want to make a choice until I've investigated all the possibilities.

thanks,
T

[JackCampin]

If you're wanting an instrument as chromatic and wide-ranging as a modern flute, a recorder (or multiple recorders to cover different ranges) will get you most of the way there, though quieter and you will never play in a modern orchestra. The csakan is the nearest you'll get to a fipple blown keyed flute. Mollenhauer make them and they're VERY expensive. I've never tried one and their sound samples suggest a sort of neither-fish-nor-fowl tone that doesn't appeal to me.

Put a fipple on anything else and it'll play way out of tune. This is sometimes done with the single-octave folk clarinets of Turkey, Georgia and Armenia, but they require continuous conscious intervention to play anything like the right pitch anyway. A clarinet goes out of tune if even the tiniest bit of the setup changes.

What's the problem? There might be a fix. I have a cleft lip and palate. My lips are quite heavily scarred (part of my upper lip is actually a bit of lower lip transplanted) but I decided whan I was about 15 that I was going to treat the flute as a challenge (I just loved the sound) and in the event it wasn't all that hard - I may not have a professional's range of tone, but I can get a sound okay. Clarinet was trickier, because I still have a small residual oronasal fistula, and playing a high-pressure instrument (clarinet, oboe, brass) blows saliva out of my nose. I finally figured I could seal the fistula by inserting a small piece of denture fixative sheet pressed against it under my denture.

If you do end up with the ocarina, and can't blow hard, you need to know the pressure profile of the ocarina you get. Focalink makes a line of "soft breath" ones - most other makes require more pressure as you go up the scale. My Fiehn soprano G ocarina needs as much oomph as a hard-reeded clarinet to hit the top notes, but that gives it tremendous power.

[Tim2723]

I suppose any number of whistle makers here might produce a fipple section that could fit directly onto a clarinet, but I wouldn't waste too much time or money on it. If you need to satisfy your curiosity, fine, but don't waste resources that could buy you another instrument that will work.

A recorder or two might make you happy. A tenor and bass pair can cover most of the range while still being very flute-like. A double or triple ocarina gets around the range limits inherent in that instrument. STL has a nice plastic triple for about $70 which would allow you to experiment without breaking the bank. Then there are other instruments yet, like the melodion, that can be a lot of fun without needing any special blowing skills. Of course, there's the uilleann pipes, a wind instrument you don't even blow.

[Kypfer]

As I see it, as others have suggested, a recorder is possibly your best bet, both as a wide(ish)-range instrument and as one that doesn't need a lot of air for it to play nicely. Alternatively, should you wish to experiment, a recorder head is more likely to be a close or adaptable fit for your clarinet than any whistle.

In the UK one can aquire a plastic recorder in most sizes for a couple of pounds each (+ postage) on eBay ... this might give you a wide range of options and experience for very little money.

There's a thread elsewhere on this forum "In Praise of Plastic Recorders" (or similar) that seems to conclude you wouldn't go wrong with an Aulos recorder ... that's not to say the subtleties of a Yamaha, Dolmetsch etc might not suit you better, but at the price of a second-hand instrument, you may well be able to try several

[JackCampin]

Actually a low whistle head, like a Howard, would fit a clarinet better than a recorder headjoint - the recorder headjoint is far too long to match a clarinet mouthpiece, or even mouthpiece and barrel together. I still doubt if any whistle adaptation could be near enough in tune to be any use.

Another possible instrument might be the accordina, a sort of upmarket melodica.

http://www.patmissin.com/history/accordina.html

Sound sample here:

http://olivier.manoury.free.fr/accordina.html

Modern maker's homepage, with lots of sound samples:

http://www.accordinas.com/index.php?lg=1&rbq=0

A completely different option: a wind controller:

http://www.patchmanmusic.com/WindControllerFAQ.html

I haven't tried any of the presently made ones - tried an old Casio DX-100 or similar and hated it. They vary a lot in feel, you have to try before you buy.

[Kypfer]

the recorder headjoint is far too long to match a clarinet mouthpiece

... sorry, I didn't make myself very clear, I was anticipating "introducing" the recorder headjoint to a hacksaw to get it to a suitable size. At the price of a cheap plastic recorder, it semed to me like the best way of aquiring a whistle-head that might suit without risking damaging/sacrificing anything more expensive

[Tim2723]

the recorder headjoint is far too long to match a clarinet mouthpiece

... sorry, I didn't make myself very clear, I was anticipating "introducing" the recorder headjoint to a hacksaw to get it to a suitable size. At the price of a cheap plastic recorder, it semed to me like the best way of aquiring a whistle-head that might suit without risking damaging/sacrificing anything more expensive

That's a commendable recommendation, since this isn't going to work anyway and there's no sense in our friend wasting money.

[recorder&bassoon]

[ Old thread revival. - Mod ]

Hi.
The question of exchanging the mouthpieces from one instrument to another is interesting, but you have to consider the internal volume of the original and the alternate, as well as the tapers involved in the various headjoints/mouthpieces.
I'm not too familiar with whistles, but the third and fourth register on the recorder is possible largely because of the reverse taper of the bore. Flutes and clarinets and other modern wind instruments achieve the third and higher registers through direct embouchure control of the oscillator, which is not available to recorder, whistle and ocarina players.
While flutes and clarinets are nominally cylindrical, but they each have tapered sections in the headjoint or mouthpiece-and-barrel segments which are designed to help keep the second and third registers closer in tune.
If you are feeling inventive, and have the time and patience, find a way to carve a fipple into a clarinet mouthpiece just above the "window" where the two chambers meet. Or, since the bore of the upper chamber is close in cross-section to the diameter of a soprano recorder, you could try to graft a part of a soprano head onto the upper chamber a clarinet mouthpeice, taking into account the the volume you lose from the mouthpiece and the volume you add with the soprano head. However, it still won't be very loud.

Howevr, if your primary wish is to play, not tinker, then look into a "Wind Controller", "Wind Synthesizer", or "Wind Synth" for short. Programmable sounds, choice of fingering system, wind pressure sensitive, and some have bite sensitivity too. They eliminate the need for any particular "embouchure", for those with nerve damage or some other impediment to embouchure strength. And there is probably one out there which can be programmed to play with one hand! (for those cell phone junkies).
The fact that it's electronic doesn't prevent you from taking a small amp along to band practice or to play chamber music. Any good music store should have one you can try on site, or even rent for a month if you are not sure you want to commit. I don't know what they cost ... there is probably some difference in price according to features, but try starting with a web search.

Good Luck,
Ivor

[Peter Duggan]

I've read that putting a fipple mouthpiece on a flute reduces it to being able to play only 2 octaves, which is a bit of a disappointment.

Um, have you seen this?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83940

(Maybe not because it's a more recent post, but it's astonishing!)