Square or round bore ?

queensmessenger · Post by **queensmessenger** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:32 am

I am currently experimenting to make a native american flute and am wondering about the shape of the bore of such an instrument. A half round router tip would give the exact round shape to the bore if made in two split halfs BUT has anyone ever made one with a square bore.
The square bore would be much easier to route as the choice of router bits to pruduce such a bore is more extensive and easy to obtain whereas the half round tool is much more difficult to obtain.
Has anyone tried this and if so does it work well enough to consider producing instruments with this configeration. I would have thought that the area of a square tube being equal to the area of an equivalent circle of a round tube should give the same mathematics to determine the correct area to length ration for setting the fundamental key. Anyone care (or dare) to comment
Thanks for listening

Tim2723 · Post by **Tim2723** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:17 pm

Hi,

If you hunt through the archives on world/folk winds section you'll find a couple of discussions about bass recorders that have square bores. There are some stops of organ pipes made that way as well. that's all I know about it.

queensmessenger · Post by **queensmessenger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:30 am

Thanks Tim
Hope springs eternal. Will keep you posted
Doug (a real square)

queensmessenger · Post by **queensmessenger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:31 am

Thanks Tim
Hope springs eternal. Will keep you posted
Doug (a real square)

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:39 am

Tim2723 wrote:Hi,

If you hunt through the archives on world/folk winds section you'll find a couple of discussions about bass recorders that have square bores. There are some stops of organ pipes made that way as well. that's all I know about it.

When I was a kid my home church decided to replace their old pipe organ. I have always been interested in how things work and about music making. As the workers were disassembling the old organ, I managed to get a few of the smaller wooden flute pipes, which had square bores. These were stopped pipes, as opposed to open pipes, in that a wooden/leather stopper was inserted in the end of the pipe so that it could be tuned. I carried these around with me for years as important possessions. I think that I still have them in a box somewhere along with the other things from my childhood.

The history of musical instruments must surely make for an interesting story. This old organ had been a theater organ in the early 20th century. With the advent of talking movies with sound, theater organs became obsolete, and this organ had been moved to our church in a small town in Indiana untill it was disassembled in the 1950's. Whether any of the pipes were used in other organ installations, I can only guess. I hope that the pipes that once played Christmas music when I was a kid continue to play somewhere else.

queensmessenger · Post by **queensmessenger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:24 am

Thanks Doug
There's hope that this thing will work yet.
Lets hope when I do go to the top of a Scottish Mountain to play it for the first time it doesn't sound like a church organ coming from the heavens

another Doug

Yuri · Post by **Yuri** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:57 pm

A really well known recorder maker, Alec Loretto, once published a plan for a square recorder, based on the only medieval recorder find known at the time. Since Alec was a "high end of the market" maker, I'd trust his assesment that the square version performed every bit as well as the more conventional one. The reason for the plan was to enable people with limited access to specialist tools to make a working, good-quality instrument for themselves. Routers were not involved, either, instead the walls were assembled from flat planks. (if you can call a 4mm thick piece of wood a plank)

queensmessenger · Post by **queensmessenger** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:27 am

On my way.
Have calculated a NAF in key of A4 hopefully tunable from A4 to G5 using TWCalc (great for adjusting and fidling about before cutting) and have cut 2 strips pine 20mm wide by 5mm thick and 2 more strips 30mm wide by 5mm thick with lengths of 750mm to give plenty of room for cutting to final length (main bore about 381 -382 mm).
Have glued and cramped the 30mm top and bottom to one 20mm side.
Once set I will insert a block to form the boundary between the SAC and main bore and a mouthpiece before cutting main sound holes between SAC and main bore (these holes calculated at 5X10mm) then glueing on final side
Bore will be 20mm and wall thickness 5mm. Hope nothing has been missed. A final tune to length and 6 finger holes will finish the main construction
Totem and air channell will be the finishing touches together with a suitable sanding and varnishing? inside and out.

All that will be left will be to tune to length for A4 then drill the 6 finger holes.
Getting a buzz already

Doug

queensmessenger · Post by **queensmessenger** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:04 am

Hi Doug again
Disaster - all glued up with airways etc all done. Managed a very low "peep" with air hissing out all over like a demented snake.
The advantage however of box section construction is that leaky lengths can be cut out and replaced so that is what I have done tonight. Bingo - leak free. I am planing to replace the section containing the TSH and air way with 2 separate pieces of hardwood with the first running from the mouthpiece up to the back end of the TSH. Then I can put in a new piece containing the TSH which can be easily formed on the bench before fixing. Still living in hope. Korg CA 30 tuner on order for delivery soon so no excuse for not being able to tune the beast (provided it blows after these mods)

More later
Cheers
Doug

queensmessenger · Post by **queensmessenger** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:25 am

Hello again, Doug here
Further progress report. A few more problems but never unsurmountable
Tuner arrived yesterday showing a lot of work yet to do.
Notes blown as follows :- All holes closed gives G sharp. then lifting fingers one at a time starting at the bottom gives G sharp (again ?) then B flat - B - C sharp - D flat and finally with all fingers lifted - E.
Start again I thought. Not likely after coming this far. Will try adjusting hole sizes but fear that eventually I will need to remove the top section of wood (like a plank) from just after the TSH to the very end and replace it with a virgin piece of wood that I can then redrill, starting with tiny holes and enlarging each in turn until sweet music fills the air.
How am I doing so far folks ?

Doug
_________________

tansy · Post by **tansy** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:09 am

I built a square bore uilleann chanter and it is a very nice chanter. Surprisingly nice. Craig fisher designed it.

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:25 pm

If you take the width of the side inner wall of a perfectly square bore and multiply it by 1.13, you'll have the equivalent diameter as if it were a round bore.