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I haven't seen anyone talking here on this topic of ivory restrictions coming to the U.S. that will severely impact historic musical instruments.

this article gives a pretty good overview: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/21/arts/ ... .html?_r=0

basically, if you don't have a CITES certificate on your flute that has ivory on/in it (remember those little crown stems and cork holders?) you've got a problem.

This is basically nutty overkill. All for protecting against the illegal harvesting, but what's a 200-year-old flute have anything to do with it?
This is not a very good situation.

We already had a thread about this in the Uilleann forum, here: viewtopic.php?style=1&f=6&t=96867

But this is worth a separate thread.

The article implied that the same severe restrictions will apply to CITES listed wood products as well are ivory! If this is the case, it could have a much broader impact on flutes than just ivory restrictions. Does this really mean that we will be forced, by law, to stop selling or traveling with flutes that contain even the slightest amount of materials such as rosewood, cocuswood, ivory, etc?

Are flutes with these materials going to become worthless in the next few months?

Should flute makers be anticipating the addition of other vulnerable materials onto this list, and rather than risk their future flutes becoming worthless by law, instead bite the bullet now and move to commonly available materials? i.e., this law would make the stockpiling of materials that are anticipated to be CITES-listed in the near future, a very bad idea financially.

How easily distinguishable are different types of ivory? Type of animal, fossilized or not, etc?

Somehow, I've only ever (knowingly) seen 3-4 pieces of ivory in my life, and never more than one at a time.

monkey587 wrote:How easily distinguishable are different types of ivory? Type of animal, fossilized or not, etc?

Here you go:
http://www.cites.org/sites/default/file ... -guide.pdf

Kevin Krell

kkrell wrote:

monkey587 wrote:How easily distinguishable are different types of ivory? Type of animal, fossilized or not, etc?

Here you go:
http://www.cites.org/sites/default/file ... -guide.pdf

Kevin Krell

Hahahahaha!!!

Loren wrote:Hahahahaha!!!

Why Hahahahaha?

I think that's all well and good if you have a magnifying glass and a tusk in front of you. I don't think it'd be so helpful when you've got a flute ring or carving you're trying to identify.

monkey587 wrote:I think that's all well and good if you have a magnifying glass and a tusk in front of you. I don't think it'd be so helpful when you've got a flute ring or carving you're trying to identify.

This.

It's not meant to be a criticism of anyone in this thread, but if that's what CITES has to offer, that's scary. At the very least I don't think it'd be very helpful to anyone who can't already identify different types of ivory.

Yeah, better hope whoever is in charge of confiscation has more training than that handout. But don't count on it. When in doubt, they will take anything you have that looks remotely like ivory, unless you have some pretty convincing proof to the contrary.

I have a Bb Dave Williams chanter with ivory fittings. Dave used to buy old ivory billiard balls back in the late 70's early '80's when he saw them in bric-a-brac shops, flea markets etc. I've only crossed the border into Denmark and taken it to England & Ireland. I would'nt risk flying with it to England or Ireland now though.

Thanks for the alert. I was not aware of these impending changes. But selling ivory has been quite tricky for awhile now. I know because I have wanted to sell a set of ivory mounted highland pipes for several years, but every time I look into it, the situation seems awfully complex. Now I guess it will be virtually impossible. I would support this virtual ban if I thought it really would save elephants. But what happens with banned products is that they get used domestically. So instead of making nice guitars, Brazilian rosewood now makes nice Brazilian floors and the forests continue to dwindle. I think conservation programs like protected reserves are a better way to go, but I can accept that at least the intention here is good. What I did find hard to believe in the NY Times article is the government official's assertion that the US is the second largest market for ivory. Maybe in size, but I doubt that would be true in terms of consumption. More than India, Japan, Russia, and every African country? Seems doubtful to me.

Seems instrument passports are being considered.
Check out http://www.fretboardjournal.com/blog/mu ... -provision
All the best
Hammy

The League of American Orchestras web site provides some additional information on how to get a "musical instrument certificate" (aka "instrument passport").

Best wishes.

Steve