need help assessing antique flute by Christman

[tin tin]

A friend of mine recently came across her great-uncle's flute: It's labeled C.G. Christman, 404 Pearl St. New York (which apparently puts it somewhere between 1837 and 1851, or 1853-54).

All the pieces are there (in the original box), but the flute's quite grungy, as the photos show. The pads are clearly in need of replacement, and the springs aren't springy (keys stay open when pushed). There's also a crack running the length of the headjoint roughly opposite the embouchure. It's a lined head; the barrel is also cracked from ring to ring, and the slide is reluctant to move. The right-hand part's socket is cracked--more noticeable from the inside than the outside.

I'm not sure if it's cocus or rosewood, and don't know if the keys and rings are silver or nickel silver--there's heavy tarnish and even a bit of verdigris in spots.

Sounding length is about 590mm; it's 263mm from the center of the first hole (C#) to the center of the Eb key cup.

It's playable with my Copley headjoint, which is longer than the original, so it plays rather flat. (There are also some leaks, so the tone is not perfect.) Here's a quick take: http://www.box.net/shared/8qkanll2if

I'm curious as to what it would take/cost to restore this instrument to playability, and whether it's likely to be worth it. Also, what might the flute be worth in its present state?

Here are some photos; sorry, I don't know how to make them display on this page.
http://www.box.net/shared/mt0y6crob9
http://www.box.net/shared/e3aznygc5t
http://www.box.net/shared/3ajyti3ml4
http://www.box.net/shared/3mv085cfls
http://www.box.net/shared/jo51fg1pkt

Thanks for any insight you can lend!

[plunk111]

I'd highly recommend Jon Cornia (he's a member here). You'd probably have to send it to him to get an accurate estimate, but he is more than fair. One thing - the springs are probably OK. I've done some work on a few flutes of this vintage and all of them worked fine after removing the keys and cleaning the channels (and the keys themselves).

Good Luck!

Pat

[jemtheflute]

That's a fine looking flute - and another American "claw" maker! I'd lay odds on the fittings being sterling, though one can't be totally sure pending cleaning. The wood looks rather redder than even the reddest cocus I have seen, though the grain is cocus-like.... Jon Cornia will doubtless have a better idea - and I agree with Pat that, Stateside, he's your go-to man. I also agree with Pat that gunge restricting key action is likely the main reason for sluggish spring-back, rather than dead springs (though they do sometimes get metal fatigue and give way/snap). Much the same will be true for the tuning slide - accretions of old grease, moisture and metal leachates..... should separate and clean up OK. The cracks are not major issues in repair terms. Otherwise, it is all there and in decent looking condition.

The dimensions you give are suggestive of a pitch centre rather lower than A=440 (c.f. http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/flutelengths.htm) - probably between 430-5Hz, so the flute may not be of great utility for modern ensemble work, but it ought to be well worth whatever it costs to do up. That said, your clip sounds only a shade flat (just compared final g of clip with a handy whistle) with a longer head, you say..... and the internal intonation sounds excellent, so maybe it will play at Concert??? Lovely sound on it even as-is! Love it!

[jemtheflute]

BTW, to display images from Box.net, open your Box.net folder and hover the cursor over an image thumbnail. A box will drop down giving various linking codes. The bottom one will be an IMG code - just click on that one and it will copy to your clipboard, then paste it in the thread here.... and repeat for all of 'em.

As for value of the flute..... very hard to say, but if it plays as well as it sounds likely to once renovated and is playable at 440, as much as any other good quality period flute, maybe with a premium in the States for being US-made and perhaps from a not very commonly surviving marque? I'd guess that fully restored and in playing condition, absolute minimum c U$1.5k, possibly upward of twice that, FWMOIW. Again, Jon would have a better idea. Tell your friends to spend what it takes to get it sorted, and then, if they aren't going to keep it as an heirloom, make sure it goes to a player if it isn't Low Pitch - and to either a period player who'll use it at LP or a good museum collection if it is!

EDIT: just checked across on the old "claw" thread and there are some other American flutes mentioned/illustrated there as being of very red cocus - maybe the New York makers had a line of import/timber sourcing that produced that colour?

[Sillydill]

Hey Tintin,

I've had three Christman flutes and I thought they were very good players. Wish I would've kept the best Cocus flute. The wood is most likely Cocus and the keys on all of mine were nickel-silver.

Jon C. is your man, if he can't fix it, nobody can!

Here's a Pic:

[tin tin]

Jem, sadly, nothing happens when I hover, so links it is for the photos.
Spent some more time playing it--it seems like a sweet flute.
What do you think would be a fair price, given the condition? Sillydill, what was the ballpark price for yours, and what shape were they in?
I've sent Jon C. a PM--we'll see what his verdict is.

[Denny]

OT: I am so looking forward to a couple hundred words from JEM on the art of hovering!

[Sillydill]

Hey Tintin,

If memory serves, the first cocus flute was $100 (one of the best deals I've ever had) and the other two were around $250 each. But they were only 4-keys and the boxwood was missing 3 (but they were flat brass, so easy to make).

Honestly, I've been keeping my eyes open for another Christman flute (but I would rather have just a 4-key version).

[Jon C.]

Hey Tintin, been a while!
I have a cocuswood 8 key Christman flute myself, great flute!
As far as what it is worth un-restored, hard to say in these days of devaluation. Might be worth $7-800, restored it will be worth $1,400- 1,600, but you would have to get someone that still has money. I imagine it would be a collectors flute.
I will send you a PM about repairs, would be a nice weekend job...

[Steampacket]

Looks like a nice old flute, sounds nice and will probably clean up fine. Old flutes seem to be going cheap these days, so no need to go crazy, if your friend doesn't want to keep the flute for sentimental reasons, then offer 300 dollars

[Holmes]

Hi

Get the flute out of that box, I think the liner is degrading and taking the flute with it! Find a new box or reline.

H

http://www.box.net/shared/fb97k2ndig

[Jon C.]

Hi

Get the flute out of that box, I think the liner is degrading and taking the flute with it! Find a new box or reline.

H

http://www.box.net/shared/fb97k2ndig

I would not recommend this. Yes put new lining in the box, but a antique flute with the original case, is worth more then one in a plastic pistol case...

[Holmes]

[/quote]I would not recommend this. Yes put new lining in the box, but a antique flute with the original case, is worth more then one in a plastic pistol case...[/quote]

I didn't say throw the box away! I can see what looks like early signs of rot "spores" also some synthetics, as they degrade, can corrode the silver I recommended getting out of the box & this is the best advice.

H

http://www.box.net/shared/fb97k2ndig

[Jon C.]

I would not recommend this. Yes put new lining in the box, but a antique flute with the original case, is worth more then one in a plastic pistol case...[/quote]

I didn't say throw the box away! I can see what looks like early signs of rot "spores" also some synthetics, as they degrade, can corrode the silver I recommended getting out of the box & this is the best advice.

H

http://www.box.net/shared/fb97k2ndig[/quote]
Quite true.