Keyed or Keyless?

[Whistlin'Dixie]

On 2002-10-16 19:20, MarkCC wrote:

When you play a simple flute, it's a very intimate instrument. You're handling the wood directly. You can feel the wind under your fingers. There's no *machinery* in the way.

Now, when I play my clarinet, I miss the feeling of the wind under my fingers. But even with the seven uncapped fingerholes on the clarinet, you just don't get that tactile sensation, because the holes are so small, and you're always both covering a hole *and* pressing on a ring which pushes a lever which lowers a pad over another hole or two somewhere else.

It makes the playing the flute so different, and so wonderful.

-Mark

But I'm sure we're agreed that both clarinet and flute have their own distinct and very enjoyable differences

Mary ( another former Clarinetist )

[oreganem]

Sorry to drag on this post but here's my sixpence worth.
I started on a keyless flute it was fine and I got pretty nippy with the fingering . I found though that when I got to a certain level it wasn't possible to get away without keys any longer. Some of the more difficult tunes have all kinds of occasional sharps and flats in them and fiddle players and accordian players seem to love them . Maybe it was just the session I was in. I found that half holing just didn't cut it in those tunes.. So I think a keyless flute is fine for the first decade or so and then it's time for a keyed flute.. it just allows you to play at a higher level of technical difficulty. They are heavier though and take some getting used to, but I never found that the keys got in the way.

[Liam]

Oreganem,
Just curious, I don't have a flute, indeed I am just learning the Whistle, but I am curious, if one does need keys, how many keys do you think are needed? I mean is a 4 or 6 key flute enough or should one go all out and get one of the 8 key flutes?

[Richard]

Liam, if you decide that you MUST have keys, the 6-key would be my recommendation. It is especially helpful to have both long and short F keys to aid transitions. The addition of low C#/C keys in an 8-key adds great cost without adding much benefit (these notes are often weak). Also, I would advise you to avoid doing what I did. I started day one playing keyed antiques. I do have some nice ones, but leaks, pitch and intonation problems initially discouraged me.

[sturob]

I know you asked Organem but I'll chime in.

After saying you don't need keys, I have noticed that I don't know that I agree with myself. It's all about what you like and how facile you are with switching to keys. I notice that I use the keys (like Fnat) without thinking on a keyed flute, and half-hole on a keyless. It's a different style. You're not going to slide easily between keyed notes, that's for sure. Eh, it's all what you know.

As for how many keys, I guess I'd say that I don't see any reason (other than monetary, which is very legitimate) to go for less than 6. Six gives you "chromatic" up both the really-useable octaves. Eight really only gives you the bottom end C/C#, and some folks find the grasshopper-style arrangement kind of cumbersome. If you want to go down to C# or C, you do need an 8-key, but you don't need them for the higher C and C#.

Unfortunately, you probably wouldn't know without trying both for a long time. When I first got keys I thought they were the cat's pajamas, and that I couldn't live without them. Then I got to realizing the virtues of the keyless instrument and realized that I COULD live without them. So now I don't know. I've come full-circle.

Stuart

[oreganem]

To answer your question Liam I agree with Stuart if you want keys then get at least a six key but you can always buy a keyless that you can upgrade later on.
I find that even on a keyed flute I sometimes half hole especially if playing a sequence of ascending notes. I found that trying to half hole notes over larger intervals was really hard say high E to low F natural I never got a crisp note.. So for those tunes I use the keys but a keyless is easier to start off on.
Hope that helps
Edith.

[fluter_d]

Or, if you're starting, it might also make sense to get a flute with just the keys you'll use most often - Fnat, Cnat, and G#. Realistically, you're almost never going to play Bb or Eb, unless you're playing with horribly sadistic fiddle/box players on a regular basis, and even then, it's easier to just keep a Bb whistle nearby. Not only are those flats almost never used (I can only think of 2 or 3 tunes where they crop up), simple system keys just aren't conducive to fast transitions to/from these notes. At least in my opinion.
Btw, I play a Rudall & Rose original 8-keyed flute: I have never used Eb in a trad tune; the only tune with an essential Bb accidental that I've come across (& I play with a lot of fiddle players!) was a lot easier to play by half-holing than with the keys; and I turn the footjoint around because the Cnat & C# keys get in the way...
Deirdre

[MarkCC]

On 2002-10-18 22:50, sturob wrote:

As for how many keys, I guess I'd say that I don't see any reason (other than monetary, which is very legitimate) to go for less than 6. Six gives you "chromatic" up both the really-useable octaves. Eight really only gives you the bottom end C/C#, and some folks find the grasshopper-style arrangement kind of cumbersome. If you want to go down to C# or C, you do need an 8-key, but you don't need them for the higher C and C#.

I've heard that the extended keyed foot that you need for that low C and C# weakens the low D, and makes it really hard to do the strong D. Is that true?

Incidentally... Last weekend I was at a folk festival where I played with a group for an English Country dance. I actually managed to play a tune in the key of Bb on my Dixon keyless flute. It's *possible* to play a keyless in those wayout keys. But it's *really* hard. I think would have been impossible for me if it weren't a relatively slow dance.

-Mark