Sweetheart Professional D fife as gift for teenage flutist?

[MatthewVanitas]

I have an uncle I owe many favors to, and figure the best way to repay him is by spoiling my younger cousins. One of my cousins is 16 and a relatively seriously silver flute player, involved in marching band, playing for Mass, etc. She also really likes Irish music.

I was thinking that the Sweetheart Professional Fife in D ($120 for plastic) might be a fun option for her to mess with. Nice enough that it'll be a good gift, but not $500 expensive. Alternately, the A flute can be had in walnut for about the same price, and though not as useful for session playing might be an easier adjustment for her, and might be a more "deluxe" option with the actual wood. At her age she won't be playing in pub sessions anytime soon, so maybe being in "D" isn't as crucial as it'd be for other folks.

Any suggestions? Is it really wrongheaded to get her a smaller fife/band-flute rather than a full D flute? The Tipple might be somewhat more practical (and affordable), but not as prominent of a gift as I'd like to make. To a non-musician, a white PVC flute might not come across as a particularly notable gift.

I play 'whistle and lots of strings, but no side-blown winds, so any advice from the experts here would be appreciated.

[plunk111]

Not sure how much you want to spend, but the laminated wood flute that Ralph makes ($375) is very nice. I would second the "no" opinion about the fife. They are much more difficult to play and a lot less versatile as far as playing venues go. For instance, your cousin could play the flute in church, but the fife might be a bit overbearing.

Pat

[crookedtune]

I deleted my first response, which said to go with the Tipple. You have a good point that your cousin may be put off by the white PVC, and not consider it a serious instrument. (It is, of course).

I haven't played Sweet's newer fifes, but have tried others. The new ones have gotten good reviews. I think it would be a fun diversion, and could easily be sold off on these forums if it doesn't appeal. Sounds like a fun gift for a musical kid.

[MatthewVanitas]

Not sure how much you want to spend, but the laminated wood flute that Ralph makes ($375) is very nice. I would second the "no" opinion about the fife. They are much more difficult to play and a lot less versatile as far as playing venues go. For instance, your cousin could play the flute in church, but the fife might be a bit overbearing.
Pat

Are the fifes and band-flutes, by their very nature, simply louder or brasher? My vague impression was the Sweet's fifes (excepting the Renaissance and similar) were pretty much downsized Irish flutes. I bought my sister a purpleheart D back in the late 90s for $80, and it was a gorgeous little piece. She wasn't much of a flutist, so could only play it a bit, but still really likes having it and messing about with it.

Are the Sweet fifes not notabily easier to play than the cheaper "historical reproduction" fifes with the brass endpieces that are widely sold these days? Particularly if I get a larger size, like the A, would it not be just a smaller version of a full Sweet flute? Again, not a tech guy, so trying to read between the lines on a lot of this.

[jim stone]

I think there is a danger to the kid's hearing involved in a D fife.
Unless she's going to be using ear plugs.

By the way, the A flute in cherry wood is, IMO, better sounding than in walnut.
It plays in D so it's not entirely useless for ITM sessions. Of course one
can play any tune on an A flute. The G flute in rosewood is very nice.
These are reasonably easy to play, easier than the D fife.

Personally I find the Tipple D a bit of a handful and rather think the same might
apply to someone with smaller hands than mine.

[jemtheflute]

My immediate thought on reading the OP was "don't buy any kind of piccolo or fife if you're after any kind of appreciation from the folks around the recipient"! Even if she is delighted, it won't ingratiate you with her groanies!

I don't have any direct experience of the specific instruments you mention save the Tipple, so won't comment thereto, though I agree with Jim that a Tipple could be awkward for a small handed person - if she is such a one. Treble flutes in A or G are nice instruments in themselves but of limited use in ensemble situations, so if you want more than just a toy or special use (that awkward hymn tune in A, say) instrument, I'd say stick to D. A middle price-range high D whistle might actually be both more encouraging for her as an entre to ITM and less antisocial. I'd say that or the Sweet laminated D flute if your budget will stretch to one. I have tried those and have been fairly impressed by the recent models - the older ones were IMO rubbish, ditto the older (over 10 years back) whistles and piccolos/fifes - they've seemingly significantly upped their game at Sweets in the last few years.

Re: the age/session attendance thing, wow. When do you let your kids out in the States? I started taking my erstwhile pupil Tom to our local session - in a quiet country pub - when he was 15, with his mother's consent. He is now 17 and has attended pretty regularly for the last 18 months - and makes his own way there nowadays on his moped. I've also taken my own kids there and to other sessions at rather younger ages than that during school holidays when they didn't have to be up next day. My 16 year-old son will be coming with me tomorrow night as it is Half Term here - as he has done quite voluntarily (plays the bodhran & guitar) since he was about 10. Of course it's illegal for under 18s to have alcohol, but not to be on the premises. Mind you, I've been to sessions in pubs where I would probably not be happy to take minors along due to the style/atmosphere of the place, or where the publican doesn't allow under 16s in the building after 7p.m. etc.

Excuse the digression - I'm just a bit amazed, even allowing that I'm aware different US States have very variable licensing regulations.

[MatthewVanitas]

Re: the age/session attendance thing, wow. When do you let your kids out in the States? I started taking my erstwhile pupil Tom to our local session - in a quiet country pub - when he was 15, with his mother's consent. He is now 17 and has attended pretty regularly for the last 18 months - and makes his own way there nowadays on his moped. I've also taken my own kids there and to other sessions at rather younger ages than that during school holidays when they didn't have to be up next day. My 16 year-old son will be coming with me tomorrow night as it is Half Term here - as he has done quite voluntarily (plays the bodhran & guitar) since he was about 10. Of course it's illegal for under 18s to have alcohol, but not to be on the premises. Mind you, I've been to sessions in pubs where I would probably not be happy to take minors along due to the style/atmosphere of the place, or where the publican doesn't allow under 16s in the building after 7p.m. etc.

Excuse the digression - I'm just a bit amazed, even allowing that I'm aware different US States have very variable licensing regulations.

US laws vary pretty widely, but in many states it's very difficult to bring a <21 person into a bar regardless of activities. I've had 20yr old friends in bands that got bar gigs that had to sneak in the back door to play on-stage. It has a pretty detrimental effect on musical culture in the US, since in many states it's hard to get younger folks to shows and jams. Such events are usually held in bars, as that's where the money is. There are some provisions in some states for 18-21 folks to attend, with a huge black X marked on their hand in permanent ink to signify "don't serve them alcohol". Under 18 though is pretty tricky.

In any case: if I were to get her, say, an A band-flute from Sweet, I don't think it'd be that disadvantageous since she's unlikely to be in an ITM setting for the next few years, and even if she does she can always get here parents to spring for a decent D and use her A as a supplementary axe.

Main question remaining: so are the Sweet "folk fifes" and "band flutes" full-on shrill "fife and drum" fifes? Is my impression that they were of similar volume/projection to full flutes inaccurate? As mentioned, my sister has a Sweet D folk fife, and it seems reasonably mellow throughout the first register.

[jim stone]

I have a Sweetheart soprano D fife. The first octave is OK, then it's earplugs city.

The A sweetheart in cherry plays nicely, it's a flute in A and the second octave
is much better. Also it's a lot easier to play and control and play softly. As it plays
very nicely in D, as well as A, I find it useful in Old Time music sessions
that I attend, as both keys are used. It's enjoyable to just play tunes on it at home
and I also use it busking. Also playing these improves one's embouchure.

As mentioned the Sweetheart G is also very good. G is used a lot in ITM, in fact,
and the G flute plays very nicely in C too. C is sometimes used in ITM
and people tend to sing in it. The G would be a fine gift too, IMO.
Sooner or later one wants to accompany people in C.

[crookedtune]

Also very inexpensive, easy to play, and soothing to the ear are the well-made bamboo flutes. I've got a nice G from Erik the Flutemaker, and I've heard great things about Billy Miller's 'Windwood' flutes. Either would be a great transition instrument between Boehm and wooden simple-system flutes.

[Cork]

I think there is a danger to the kid's hearing involved in a D fife.
Unless she's going to be using ear plugs...

+1

It's a matter of the very high, tonal frequencies involved.

For instance, a high D fife and/or a high D flute is for the most part in the same tonal frequency range as a Boehm piccolo, and, as the point, Boehm piccolo players are routinely WARNED to not practice for long periods of time without earplugs, especially in the top register, in the highest tones, or perhaps even permanent hearing damage could occur.

The Sweetheart Pro D is a fine little flute, but I play mine only once in a while, and when my ears begin to ring, I put it away for a few months.

Yes, that's the straight story.

[MatthewVanitas]

[quote=Cork
It's a matter of the very high, tonal frequencies involved.

For instance, a high D fife and/or a high D flute is for the most part in the same tonal frequency range as a Boehm piccolo, and, as the point, Boehm piccolo players are routinely WARNED to not practice for long periods of time without earplugs, especially in the top register, in the highest tones, or perhaps even permanent hearing damage could occur. [/quote]


At the risk of sound most dense: isn't a D fife in the same tonal range as a D tinwhistle? Is it just the nature of the crossblown that makes it somehow piercing? I don't have any discomfort to my ears playing the D tinwhistle in the first register, and only slight in the second. Heck, even the High F and High G whistles, though a bit shrieky, aren't that loud in the first register.

Not at all contradicting, just trying to understand the physics involved.

[I.D.10-t]

The pro fife can also have a whistle head, the "D-trio" I think. It might be an interesting add on if you go for the pro. The Folk fifes, if I recall correctly, are optimized to play in the first two registers, they will have a solid low "D" but will not be as useful in the third register, so not quite the same as the military fifes (the second an third registers is where fifes get their reputation for sounding bright, or "shrill"). The pro fife replaced the D version of the folk fife, and I believe can cover all three octaves, but has a stronger lower octave than a typical military fife. I played pro once, but like every other D fife I have tried, my fat fingers wouldn't let me cover the top two holes well, and I put it down without getting a good feel for it (Not that I am qualified to review instruments)

The Embouchure* and fingering would most likely be different enough to make it an adjustment that either discouraging and set aside, or a joy, without having shown a past interest in simple system instruments, and especially with an odd duck like a fife, I really wonder if it wouldn't become clutter.

As for hearing I think that part of it is the position of the fife and (for some) part is blowing too hard.

*and if you want to play a fife quietly, you really need tighten up your embouchure.

[jim stone]

[quote=Cork
It's a matter of the very high, tonal frequencies involved.

For instance, a high D fife and/or a high D flute is for the most part in the same tonal frequency range as a Boehm piccolo, and, as the point, Boehm piccolo players are routinely WARNED to not practice for long periods of time without earplugs, especially in the top register, in the highest tones, or perhaps even permanent hearing damage could occur.

At the risk of sound most dense: isn't a D fife in the same tonal range as a D tinwhistle? Is it just the nature of the crossblown that makes it somehow piercing? I don't have any discomfort to my ears playing the D tinwhistle in the first register, and only slight in the second. Heck, even the High F and High G whistles, though a bit shrieky, aren't that loud in the first register.

Not at all contradicting, just trying to understand the physics involved.[/quote]
.............................................................

The Sweet D fife, though in the range of a whistle, is a good deal louder.
That's why Walt Sweet plays one, in fact, so that he will have enough
volume to accompany contradancing. Also he finds the fife
more expressive. I say this because he's told me.

Also frankly and IMO,
a D whistle is a bit dangerous.
A lot of our music involves the second
register and I think 'slight discomfort' can cumulatively be dangerous.
I'm a bit paranoid because I have a hearing loss, probably not music related
but i'm not entirely sure. I think it's best to be careful.

One option for me is to play softer whistles at home and reserve
the louder ones for performing. Also I favor lower keyed
whistles for routine playing at home, but even there
I'm a bit nervous at the top of the second register.
Even a Bb whistle can be a bit much. Even an A.
I like Abell whistles in these keys, partly because
they are easy on the ears.

Mostly I'm playing a D flute. When I busk I often play a
Susato C whistle and use earplugs. Sometimes
a Bb Billy Miller fife, and I use earplugs.

I reckon people need to decide for themselves how they judge the risks.

[Cork]

It's a matter of the very high, tonal frequencies involved.

For instance, a high D fife and/or a high D flute is for the most part in the same tonal frequency range as a Boehm piccolo, and, as the point, Boehm piccolo players are routinely WARNED to not practice for long periods of time without earplugs, especially in the top register, in the highest tones, or perhaps even permanent hearing damage could occur.

At the risk of sound most dense: isn't a D fife in the same tonal range as a D tinwhistle? Is it just the nature of the crossblown that makes it somehow piercing? I don't have any discomfort to my ears playing the D tinwhistle in the first register, and only slight in the second. Heck, even the High F and High G whistles, though a bit shrieky, aren't that loud in the first register.

Not at all contradicting, just trying to understand the physics involved.

Honestly, I'm not much of a whistle player, only fooling around on one once in a while, and although the D whistle is in the same frequency range as a high D flute, the high D flute really is louder and more penetrating, as has been mentioned.

The history of the fife seems to begin in Switzerland a few hundred years ago, where the Swiss used the fife as a military means of communication, probably because the fife could be heard even over the loudness of a battle. For instance, to tell the troops to move as a group to their left, perhaps a "turn to the left" tune could have been played, and then perhaps there could have been a "turn to the right" tune, too, etc.

Perhaps everybody could be familiar with an old tune known as "Stars and Stripes Forever" (where the piccolo doesn't become prominent until about halfway through the tune), a tune which just wouldn't be the same without that brilliant, dancing piccolo on top of it all. However, I've sometimes wondered just how many piccolo players could have been sacrificed in getting that tune to sound so good.

The trouble in handing such a sonic weapon to a young player is in not being able to prevent them from "exploring" all of what such an instrument could do, and earplugs really are recommended for anything other than short term use.

Edited, to add the tune!

[Cathy Wilde]

Sorry, but if I was her uncle I don't think I'd find living with fifing very rewarding at all.

Why don't you get her a nice tinwhistle instead? There are some good ones in that price range and then when she goes to college in Boston she can go to sessions and fit in a bit more easily.

Of course, more folks in Connecticut and the Northeast do the fife and drum thing, but ... I had a fife at her age and never had much use for it. What's more, in terms of relative shrillness it made my piccolo sound like a cello.