Are "tenon-slide" flutes ever regularly used in sessions?

[Tweeto]

Are wood flutes that have just a long tenon and no metal tuning slide really appropriate for playing in concert with other musicians? I'm considering the purchase of a "tenon-slide" wood flute but I don't want to be stuck with something that I can't play with other people. I regularly play with others, on a wood flute that has a metal tuning slide. The range of tuning I'm doing with it is anywhere from pushed almost all the way in to pulled out approximatley half an inch.

[Akiba]

Playing my all-wood Casey Burns flutes with others, including many sessions, is not a problem; they are quite tunable. I find that most folks play very close to A=440, so if the flute plays at that pitch, it should always be close enough and have enough tunability to stay in tune with others. A lot depends on whether one can play the flute in tune in the first place with the head joint close to the body as is intended with most all-wood flutes.

[Henke]

Many players are sharp or flat blowers. There's nothing wrong with that, even many pro's tend to blow very sharp for instance and have to expose quite a large portion of the tuning slide when playing in their normal manner achieving what they feel is the best sound. That's a problem which may be harder to overcome with a slideless flute.
Do you know why you have so large variations with the tuning slide? Is it because of the musicians you're playing with, outside conditions (temperature, humidity, whatever) or is it because of variations in your own embouchure approach?

You could just get an all wood flute and try to make your fellow sessioneres increase their consumption of
whisky

[Borderpiper]

I use my F Mark Hoza flute in sessions for keeping up with fiddlers when they go to Dm, Gm, F etc and it's handy for those singers that like singing in the flatter keys. I don't find tuning a problem but make sure you keep the tenon not too loose, so it stays in tune, and not too tight.

Hope that helps.

David

[plunk111]

I use my Terry McGee GLP in sessions and at church services - yes it's very appropriate...

[Casey Burns]

Few of my clients report problems when playing a flute without a tuning slide. If they play sharp or flat I customize the flute to play at that pitch. These players are in the minority.

Note that many instruments used by classical musicians lack tuning slides - and simply tune by adjustment of the tenons. Clarinets, recorders, etc. Oboes adjust with the reed. With a pitch standard of 440 its pretty easy to narrow the focus.

Old flutes were originally played at other pitch standards - in some cases sharp ones, requiring the tuning slide to be pulled out 1/2" or more. Players of new flutes with tuning slides are commonly surprised that they have to pull out the slides much less.

Bottom line - unless you blow a flute way sharp or flat, you should be able to play just fine without the slide.

Casey

[kirikee]

Note that many instruments used by classical musicians lack tuning slides - and simply tune by adjustment of the tenons. Clarinets, recorders, etc. Oboes adjust with the reed. With a pitch standard of 440 its pretty easy to narrow the focus.

I used to play Clarinet and I've been wondering why flutes generally have a tuning slide when other woodwinds don't. Why is this?

[Akiba]

Note that many instruments used by classical musicians lack tuning slides - and simply tune by adjustment of the tenons. Clarinets, recorders, etc. Oboes adjust with the reed. With a pitch standard of 440 its pretty easy to narrow the focus.

I used to play Clarinet and I've been wondering why flutes generally have a tuning slide when other woodwinds don't. Why is this?

My guess is that wooden flutes with slides have a different tone and response than all-wood flutes, i.e. it's more for the tone than the tuning.

Jason

[Terry McGee]

I used to play Clarinet and I've been wondering why flutes generally have a tuning slide when other woodwinds don't. Why is this?

Good question, kirikee. I think I have some answers.

Firstly, some instruments aren't going to be easy to fit a slide to. The oboe is conical from end to end, and I don't think anyone has invented a conical tuning slide yet!

But the clarinet is dead cylindrical, so that isn't the answer there. I suspect it's all to do with how badly opening up a gap in the bore affects things. The clarinet is a pressure driven instrument with low flow, while the flute is a low pressure instrument with high flow. I suspect the impact on the flow-driven instrument is more significant.

The clarinet is also closed at one end, giving a quarter wave fundamental response, while the flute is open at both ends giving a half wave response. That would suggest for the same number of cents of pitch change, the flute would have to be pulled out twice as far, making for twice the volume of disruption.

Finally, I suspect that flute players have more scope for playing at different pitches than clarinetists. The reed dominates the clarinet, probably limiting the possible range of pitch, whereas on the flute, we can easily lip a semitone.

The disruption issue is significant in the flute. Even if your flute has a tuning slide, you can experiment by pulling the socket out at the top of the body, pushing the slide in to compensate. You start to notice disruptive effects to tuning and responsiveness by the time you have introduced a gap around 3 to 5mm. I make a no-tuning slide flute with a thin tenon and with the cork on the inside of the socket to minimise this disruption, probably reducing it by half (my Minimum Disruption Tenon approach). Anyone with a more typical flute without a slide who needs to pull the body out more than 3mm should consider getting a tuning ring made to take up some of the gap.

Hope that helps!

Terry

[ElaineT]

Actually, clarinettists have a fair amount of pitch flexibility. It's not as extreme as flute, but have you ever heard a really good player do the gliss at the start of Rhapsody in Blue?

On clarinet, you can buy different length barrels that suit your intonation to minimize the gap at the tenon. It's rather rare to find a professional clarinettist who plays on the "stock" barrel. Tuning rings help, but orchestras tend sharp rather than flat so you don't generally need them.