Cliffs of moher and F natural
Cliffs of moher and F natural
When you play Cliffs of Moher is the F in the B part an F natural or F sharp? I'm talking about the F in the first 3 notes. Grey Larsen's book shows an F natural but other sources show an F sharp. It sounds right either way. When they play at our session I'm not sure which note it is. It's one of those notes that I have trouble hearing what note it is. I lack perfect pitch so I go on what seems right but both seem right.
When I play an F natural I half-hole it. Is that the right way to make an F natural? Or is there a cross-fingered solution?
When I play an F natural I half-hole it. Is that the right way to make an F natural? Or is there a cross-fingered solution?
~ Diane
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
- crookedtune
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Diane,
F# or F nat, it doesn't really matter so long as everyone is playing the same thing. Makes for a nice variation using both. I have had to stop playing the Chicago Reel for the exact same reason. Some folks learned the tune with an F nat in the B part, and some with an F#. If I do dare to play the Chicago, I have to say that I am playing it with an F#, and with an F nat the second time through, etc. Otherwise, it always derails.
Arbo
F# or F nat, it doesn't really matter so long as everyone is playing the same thing. Makes for a nice variation using both. I have had to stop playing the Chicago Reel for the exact same reason. Some folks learned the tune with an F nat in the B part, and some with an F#. If I do dare to play the Chicago, I have to say that I am playing it with an F#, and with an F nat the second time through, etc. Otherwise, it always derails.
Arbo
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When I actually play that note instead of some other figure (rolling the E, triplet to the G, etc.), I tend to play an F-supernatural, somewhere between F and F#. Just roll off to slide up to the note and back to E, no careful half-hole necessary. Maybe that's cheating.
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In general, half holing is pretty much at the bottom of the list of things I can do, and that's not to say I've ever had any particular success at it.
Inconsistent and murky, at best, could be a fair description of my half holing abilities.
Maybe one of these days, years, or decades I'll work it out.
Meanwhile, I'm in the camp which knows why keys were invented.
:-)
Inconsistent and murky, at best, could be a fair description of my half holing abilities.
Maybe one of these days, years, or decades I'll work it out.
Meanwhile, I'm in the camp which knows why keys were invented.
:-)
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Ignoring Cork's comments ( I don't think Cork goes to sessions. I often play a key-less flute in sessions and I half-hole with no obvious problem - solo is another story), you can play the tune either way or both ways. It's good to be flexible and to be able to go from Fn to F# when you want to. I often use the Eb and G# keys to see how the tune would sound. Depends on the session- loud and boisterous or retrained and serious - and the other musicians.
Why would you want to stop playing a tune because you're not sure where one note fits in? I play Chicago with an F# but I were playing with somebody who used an Fn I would do it that way. Or expect them to accommodate me. It gets interesting when two people want to play to the other's setting and so they each play a different note every time through. Best not to take it too seriously.
Why would you want to stop playing a tune because you're not sure where one note fits in? I play Chicago with an F# but I were playing with somebody who used an Fn I would do it that way. Or expect them to accommodate me. It gets interesting when two people want to play to the other's setting and so they each play a different note every time through. Best not to take it too seriously.
Time will tell who has fell and who's been left behind,
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.
Does anybody else find that there are a few tunes where there are notes like this that you can't tell which note it is? There are some tunes (which ones escape me now) where I'm not sure if it's a C or C# and either way it sounds right. I mean, I can't really tell even when hearing it. Sometimes I don't think it's either. Maybe I'm hearing the "supernatural", as you say.
As for the half-holing, F is easy enough and so is Bb. G# is not easy. For me anyway. At least that one I can cross finger with practice.
As for the half-holing, F is easy enough and so is Bb. G# is not easy. For me anyway. At least that one I can cross finger with practice.
~ Diane
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
- rama
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as far as "the cliffs...",
i find any or no note will do at that point . it doesn't matter what it is. it won't affect the tune. actually, it's the note that precedes it that i think matters and so i try to accent that.
and this might explain why you may hear different things being played by different folks.
i find any or no note will do at that point . it doesn't matter what it is. it won't affect the tune. actually, it's the note that precedes it that i think matters and so i try to accent that.
and this might explain why you may hear different things being played by different folks.
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What rama said.
Heck, do 'em all - for sure if you're playing solo, anyway. Variation is the spice of traditional music. You can skirt the F question altogether by rolling the E or cranning it or going into it with a long "nyah" slide from below; you can use Fnat, keyed if you have the choice or half-holed, depending on what you're after; a hop up to a cut G instead of Fnat (the ascending triplet sounds good, MTGuru; an obvious solution that I didn't even think of. Thanks!), and I just realised that a jump up to the high A or down to the low A could sound pretty nifty too. There have got to be more available to you, as well.
I'm not too inclined to use the F#, but who knows for the future.
Heck, do 'em all - for sure if you're playing solo, anyway. Variation is the spice of traditional music. You can skirt the F question altogether by rolling the E or cranning it or going into it with a long "nyah" slide from below; you can use Fnat, keyed if you have the choice or half-holed, depending on what you're after; a hop up to a cut G instead of Fnat (the ascending triplet sounds good, MTGuru; an obvious solution that I didn't even think of. Thanks!), and I just realised that a jump up to the high A or down to the low A could sound pretty nifty too. There have got to be more available to you, as well.
I'm not too inclined to use the F#, but who knows for the future.
"If you take music out of this world, you will have nothing but a ball of fire." - Balochi musician
Thanks for those ideas! For me, variations don't come all that natural unless really simple, like maybe skip a note, take a breath, do a roll or a cut or something really simple like that. I never am sure what notes to substitute. Aside from a lack of musicality and creativity, I wouldn't want to be accused of playing jazz or something.
~ Diane
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
- Nanohedron
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Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
The ones I mentioned are pretty simple, too, really. Simple's what I do, myself. All you need to do is now and then when you're bored pick up your instrument and try stuff and see if it works, and if it does, put it into your bag-o-trix.
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Have a good listen to lots of fiddle and pipe players - people like Paddy Canny. They are often playing a note a little bit flat or a bit sharp here or there, sliding into notes - it's not sloppy playing, it's deliberately done to enhance the character of the music. C is a very variable note in particular.sbfluter wrote:Does anybody else find that there are a few tunes where there are notes like this that you can't tell which note it is? There are some tunes (which ones escape me now) where I'm not sure if it's a C or C# and either way it sounds right.
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I can't recall ever noticing anybody, live or recorded, playing an F nat anywhere in Cliffs of Moher - not saying it isn't/shouldn't be done, just that I haven't come across it, and it's a pretty bog-standard sesh tune!
FWIW, I tend to play a dotted crotchet E at the beginning of the B music, often gracing into it by hitting a very brief D first. I vary what I do on the various recurrences of the figure.
FWIW, I tend to play a dotted crotchet E at the beginning of the B music, often gracing into it by hitting a very brief D first. I vary what I do on the various recurrences of the figure.
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