Tonguing and glottal stops
Tonguing and glottal stops
I recently got a copy of the Mad for Trad flute tutorial with Seamus Egan. I like it a lot and am enjoying playing along with the videos.
In the beginning section he demonstrates separating notes and adding definition by using glottall stops where he interrupts the airflow by briefly making a gutteral K sound in the back of the throat. Coming from a Boehm flute background, I have always done this by tonguing notes and find it a more natural technique for me. It is pretty easy for me to switch to the glottal technique, but it doesn't feel as natural and has a slightly different quality to it which is hard to describe other than the slightly noticeable K versus T sound. I also find I can easily add separation by just adding a little stronger pulse of air from the diaphragm.
Does it really make much of a difference as to which method to use when learning ITM on the flute? And, if so, why would one method be preferred over the other?
In the beginning section he demonstrates separating notes and adding definition by using glottall stops where he interrupts the airflow by briefly making a gutteral K sound in the back of the throat. Coming from a Boehm flute background, I have always done this by tonguing notes and find it a more natural technique for me. It is pretty easy for me to switch to the glottal technique, but it doesn't feel as natural and has a slightly different quality to it which is hard to describe other than the slightly noticeable K versus T sound. I also find I can easily add separation by just adding a little stronger pulse of air from the diaphragm.
Does it really make much of a difference as to which method to use when learning ITM on the flute? And, if so, why would one method be preferred over the other?
Bob
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
- cocusflute
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YesDoes it really make much of a difference as to which method to use when learning ITM on the flute?
As the man said, if you have to ask I can't tell you.And, if so, why would one method be preferred over the other?
Just keep listening.
The struggle in Palestine is an American war, waged from Israel, America's most heavily armed foreign base and client state. We don't think of the war in such terms. Its assigned role has been clear: the destruction of Arab culture and nationalism.
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You're welcome. But don't think that being nice to me will blunt my sharp tongue or warm my cold disposition.
I am at an age that allows a graceful transition from asshole to crank.
I am at an age that allows a graceful transition from asshole to crank.
The struggle in Palestine is an American war, waged from Israel, America's most heavily armed foreign base and client state. We don't think of the war in such terms. Its assigned role has been clear: the destruction of Arab culture and nationalism.
cocusflute wrote:You're welcome. But don't think that being nice to me will blunt my sharp tongue or warm my cold disposition.
I am at an age that allows a graceful transition from asshole to crank.
That's funny...so it wasn't just my imagination in thinking that your first reply was a little "short." Of course, all of use will undergo the "graceful transition" to varying degrees as our prefrontal cortex changes with age. The stereotypical "stubborn, grumpy old man" is not as much a willful choice as we think. Sounds like you are enjoying the journey...
BTW, I promise to never never start a post again without making a search first. I just looked up glottal stops and found enough controversy to keep me reading all evening.
Bob
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
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it sounds like you are resistant to learn them. that's ok. the way i like to approach is to learn how to do something, especially if not learning it is "easier."
the first time you do glottal stops, they wont feel right, compared to tonguing. usually, the first time you do something different, it wont feel solid, and you probably wont get the results you want.
i would suggest sticking to glottal tonguing for a couple months or years and then making your mind... you'll be able to go back to tonguing if you want.
the first time you do glottal stops, they wont feel right, compared to tonguing. usually, the first time you do something different, it wont feel solid, and you probably wont get the results you want.
i would suggest sticking to glottal tonguing for a couple months or years and then making your mind... you'll be able to go back to tonguing if you want.
I'm not resistant to learn them, daiv, I was just wondering if tonguing was acceptable or if there was a compelling tonal, technical, or historical reason for using glottal stops. I can hear some slight differences but, to my ear, the tonguing sounds pretty good as well, and I am experienced in varying my tonguing for different degrees of articulation and volume already. I'm sure folks who are experienced with glottal stops can do the same and more.daiv wrote:it sounds like you are resistant to learn them. that's ok. the way i like to approach is to learn how to do something, especially if not learning it is "easier."
I was trying both this afternoon, and they both sounded pretty good to me. So I was just curious. I didn't conduct a search before I made the post, which was a mistake, because, once I did make a search, I found that this topic has been discussed exhaustively.
Your advise is well taken. I'll l use both and see how it goes.
Bob
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
you will live to regret that statement.norcalbob wrote:I promise to never never start a post again without making a search first.
yes, if lightly (and it isn't obvious) and yes of coursenorcalbob wrote:I was just wondering if tonguing was acceptable or if there was a compelling tonal, technical, or historical reason for using glottal stops.
I had my fingers crossed...Denny wrote:you will live to regret that statement.norcalbob wrote:I promise to never never start a post again without making a search first.
Bob
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
Come to the edge/ It's too high/ Come to the edge/ We might fall/ Come to the edge/ And we came/ And he pushed/ And we flew!
Guillaume Apollinaire
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Denny wrote:doesn't work here
we do cross fingering
not finger crossing
Sometimes we even do furious fingering!
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!
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fintan vallely describes 5 types of irish articulation:norcalbob wrote:I'm not resistant to learn them, daiv, I was just wondering if tonguing was acceptable or if there was a compelling tonal, technical, or historical reason for using glottal stops. I can hear some slight differences but, to my ear, the tonguing sounds pretty good as well, and I am experienced in varying my tonguing for different degrees of articulation and volume already. I'm sure folks who are experienced with glottal stops can do the same and more.daiv wrote:it sounds like you are resistant to learn them. that's ok. the way i like to approach is to learn how to do something, especially if not learning it is "easier."
I was trying both this afternoon, and they both sounded pretty good to me. So I was just curious. I didn't conduct a search before I made the post, which was a mistake, because, once I did make a search, I found that this topic has been discussed exhaustively.
Your advise is well taken. I'll l use both and see how it goes.
tonguing with a t
tonguing with a k
glottal tonguing (which is with your throat, different than a k)
taps
cuts
using the air pressure as you described to separate notes
i used to think that it was not worth doing. but, if you start to get the hang of it, it will actually change the way you direct your air in to the flute, and there will be some sounds you can get out of your flute that you can not get out of it without glottal stopping. although it is useful for separating two notes of the same pitch, i think it is more useful for adding emphasis to other notes that are not repeated, as per the sound changes.
what's even more, is that on my playing my silver flute with my copley headjoint, i can get a pretty wooden sound, but if i start to do glottal stops, it transforms it fully to that irish sound. i used to think it was an option in getting that traditional sound, but after watching how it literally changed the sound and response i could get out of my silver flute, i am more likely to think that it is all but mandatory.