I've been playing Irish music for a number of years now, so I understand that there are quite a few differences between Classical and Irish music. Especially when it comes to styles and ornamentation. One of my relatives has been playing classical flute for nearly two decades and did a first year music at university on flute and piano. This person has become interested in Irish music and was wondering what the differences are between Irish and Classical flutes. For instance is the ombassure simmilar and likewise the fingering scale?
There is not really a FAQ thread and I have found finding 'starting out' information difficult to come across. I did read the warning 'sticky' at the top of the page and found it useful. Thankyou for the warning. Any information, such as what is the best beginner/intermediate flute would be incredibly helpful.
More experienced forum members will probably elaborate on this, but here are a few quick responses:
The "Irish" flute generally refers to a wooden simple-system flute of the type that was used in classical western orchestras up to mid-19th century, when it was gradually replaced by the Boehm metal flute that your friend plays. (This is why flutes are classified as "woodwinds" today - a bit like the "metal woods" that golfers use).
The classical wooden flutes had 6 open holes to play a D major scale over 2-3 octaves, plus a system of normally-closed holes opened by pressing keys to enable playing of notes outside the D scale. Most Irish music is in D or G (or modes thereof) and can be played without using the keys. The wooden flute also has a conical bore to enable the maker to tune the octaves properly.
The modern Boehm flute has a cylindrical bore with a conical head to do the same thing as regards tuning. It has a system of normally-open keys, with no open holes. It produces a brighter, silvery tone and is easier to play across 3-4 octaves, in every key.
The embouchure holes on "Irish" flutes are generally smaller, but there are many variations favoured by different makers and players. There is a key differenec in the way the player shapes the blowing embouchure and directs air - broadly, the "Irish" style directs air down into the hole more than the modern Boehm style, which is more across the top of the hole - the Irish sound is more nasal, "harder", perhaps rougher.
There is a fundamental difference when it comes to ornamentation. In western classical music, "ornaments" generally consist of "grace notes" which, although short in duration, are intended to be heard as audible pitches. In Irish music, the ornaments are more properly "articulations" - for example, a "cut" is not meant to sound like a very short high note placed just before a melody note, even though it is played that way.
When it comes to the music, I can't hope to even scratch the surface here. Suffice to say, the music is structured around several standard dance tune forms (jigs, reels, Kerry polkas, hornpipes) and there are literally thousands of tunes of each type. An important point is that the music was traditionally handed down by ear. Classical musicians are taught to regard the written score as THE music, and to adhere closely to the score. Traditional musicians are expected to make the music their own once they have learned a tune - including variations, personal style and subtle factors.
By the way, there are several good performers of ITM (Irish Traditional Music) who play the Boehm flute.
If your friend wants to try a wooden simple system flute, I can recommend the Casey Burns Folk Flute (I have one). Inexpensive and high quality.
Terry McGee's website has a load of good info on the history of different flute types and structures.
I believe use of the 4th octave predates the Boehm-system flute, although it was (and remains) rarely encountered by your average player.
The simple system flute was routinely played even by amateurs in every key. The Boehm system flute's advantages for playing over the full range of keys don't involve ease of fingering as much as the fact that the tone holes are nearly all of equal size.
For an understanding of the complexity of music that was routinely played on the simple system flute even by merely "average" players, you should read this:
L42B wrote:
......This person has become interested in Irish music and was wondering what the differences are between Irish and Classical flutes.
.......
An Irish flute will only play Irish music if you play Irish music with it.
A "Classical" flute will only play classical music if you play classical music on it.
Your friend can play Irish music on the Boehm flute. Of course it will sound different (in timbre and articulation) depending on the instrument but diffrence is not a problem. There are even differences between Irish flutes (though they be differences of another order).
The only problem I can see with a keyed flute for Irish music is the limitation such a flute places on sliding/bending notes. Of course, if your friend is playing a slow air friend could change the embouchure angle to effect this. It may be problematical at speed though.
One difference that I don't think anyone's touched on is that the metal flute sounds Fnatural with the same fingering as the wooden flute sounds F#. My wife has started playing the wooden flute more lately, and only plays pieces she doesn't play on Boehm flute on the wooden flute so that she doesn't get the fingerings crossed up.
Charlie Whorfin Woods
"Our work puts heavy metal where it belongs -- as a music genre and not a pollutant in drinking water." -- Prof Ali Miserez.
This fluteboard, if you peruse it, going back over the pages
and clicking on various threads, will give you a wealth
of interesting and relevant info. Pictures too.
A number of discussions closely related to your
questions as well.
talasiga wrote:The only problem I can see with a keyed flute for Irish music is the limitation such a flute places on sliding/bending notes.
Don't many of those flutes have open holled keys that would allow for this? If it is a concern about the embouchure, I wonder whether some styles allow more bending or glissando.
As to the original post, I have found that Terry McGee's site to be a nice reference on the differences in the flutes themselves.
"Be not deceived by the sweet words of proverbial philosophy. Sugar of lead is a poison."
Tell us something.: I play flute, whistle and harp and have been a member on this board for many years. I have tended to be a lurker recently and just posted a response for the first time in quite awhile.
[Don't many of those flutes have open holled keys that would allow for this? If it is a concern about the embouchure, I wonder whether some styles allow more bending or glissando.]
You'd think that would be the case but ask anyone that has changed from a closed to an open-hole flute and they'll tell you the instrument sounds like c@#* if you don't cover the holes well. I did try to slide awhile back and it didn't work worth a darn. Now, I didn't spend a whole lot of time on this but maybe there are others out there who have either made it work or concluded that it won't
I have an open-hole, Boehm-style silver flute. However, I am used to playing a keyless Irish flute, and I use the piper's grip with my right hand, letting my fingers extend way over the finger holes. If you try using this technique with an open-holed silver flute, I don't think that you will be very successful because you will not be able to sufficiently cover the holes. I ended up putting the plastic plugs into the open holes of the flute, so now I have a plateau-style flute. At least I can play the notes that way.
To generalize, they call a keyed flute with small open holes in the center of the keys an open-holed flute, but they do not play the same as an open-holed keyless flute. I think that it is much easier to slur notes on an open-holed, keyless flute, like the Irish flute, and once you get used to playing them, a Boehm-style silver flute with all of its mechanism feels absolutely clunky in comparison. The wooden flute with keys is a hybrid flute in that, in addition to the keys for the accidentals, you still have the six open holes to bend the notes as you would on a keyless flute, so you get the best of both worlds.
Tell us something.: I play flute, whistle and harp and have been a member on this board for many years. I have tended to be a lurker recently and just posted a response for the first time in quite awhile.
Doug_Tipple wrote:I think that it is much easier to slur notes on an open-holed, keyless flute, like the Irish flute, and once you get used to playing them, a Boehm-style silver flute with all of its mechanism feels absolutely clunky in comparison. The wooden flute with keys is a hybrid flute in that, in addition to the keys for the accidentals, you still have the six open holes to bend the notes as you would on a keyless flute, so you get the best of both worlds.
Yeah- what Doug said. The mechanics of the keyed simple system flutes are quieter and have a more graceful feel than those of Boehm flutes.
Why not have your relative get a tinwhistle and give it a try? Chances are, it'll all be downhill from the first D tune. But at least they'll start out inexpensively ....
Deja Fu: The sense that somewhere, somehow, you've been kicked in the head exactly like this before.
More experienced forum members will probably elaborate on this, but here are a few quick responses:
The "Irish" flute generally refers to a wooden simple-system flute of the type that was used in classical western orchestras up to mid-19th century, when it was gradually replaced by the Boehm metal flute that your friend plays. (This is why flutes are classified as "woodwinds" today - a bit like the "metal woods" that golfers use).
The classical wooden flutes had 6 open holes to play a D major scale over 2-3 octaves, plus a system of normally-closed holes opened by pressing keys to enable playing of notes outside the D scale. Most Irish music is in D or G (or modes thereof) and can be played without using the keys. The wooden flute also has a conical bore to enable the maker to tune the octaves properly.
The modern Boehm flute has a cylindrical bore with a conical head to do the same thing as regards tuning. It has a system of normally-open keys, with no open holes. It produces a brighter, silvery tone and is easier to play across 3-4 octaves, in every key.
The embouchure holes on "Irish" flutes are generally smaller, but there are many variations favoured by different makers and players. There is a key differenec in the way the player shapes the blowing embouchure and directs air - broadly, the "Irish" style directs air down into the hole more than the modern Boehm style, which is more across the top of the hole - the Irish sound is more nasal, "harder", perhaps rougher.
There is a fundamental difference when it comes to ornamentation. In western classical music, "ornaments" generally consist of "grace notes" which, although short in duration, are intended to be heard as audible pitches. In Irish music, the ornaments are more properly "articulations" - for example, a "cut" is not meant to sound like a very short high note placed just before a melody note, even though it is played that way.
When it comes to the music, I can't hope to even scratch the surface here. Suffice to say, the music is structured around several standard dance tune forms (jigs, reels, Kerry polkas, hornpipes) and there are literally thousands of tunes of each type. An important point is that the music was traditionally handed down by ear. Classical musicians are taught to regard the written score as THE music, and to adhere closely to the score. Traditional musicians are expected to make the music their own once they have learned a tune - including variations, personal style and subtle factors.
By the way, there are several good performers of ITM (Irish Traditional Music) who play the Boehm flute.
If your friend wants to try a wooden simple system flute, I can recommend the Casey Burns Folk Flute (I have one). Inexpensive and high quality.
Terry McGee's website has a load of good info on the history of different flute types and structures.
Somebody make this a sticky, please. This board has gotten so huge that thoughtful info for noobs is a challenge for some to find. Good, solid, basic, encouraging information is such a blessing.
Last edited by Chiffed on Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
