Chiff and Fipple Forums

Hello all,

I'm de-lurking to ask for some opinions. I've been tooting away on a Tipple PVC flute in D for the past 7 months. I've gotten to the point where I'd like to upgrade to a "real" flute (not that the Tipple hasn't been great, it has). I've done some research and have narrowed my choices down to either a Hamilton or a Copley (both are in my price range, both makers are well-regarded, and i just like the sound of both).

The design of both these flutes is "Pratten-esque" and I've read that Pratten style flutes are very demanding in terms of embrochure and air requirements. Given this, how rocky is my transition from the Tipple to either a Hamilton or a Copley likely to be? Thanks,

SteveB

Hey SteveB,

Welcome!

I've not played a Hamilton, but I hear they are not especially easy to play. However, I have described Copley's flutes as amiable, they are very easy to get along with (not especially demanding, but very rewarding).

All the Best!

Jordan

Steve,

In a thread last weeks on Aebi flutes, a poster "Trish" said that she was thinking of selling her Hamilton, but it was buried in the thread, so I doubt if many noticed it. Perhaps you should contact her.

Hugh

Steve,

I started on a Tipple too, then my first wooden flute was a used Copley, and more recently, I got a used Hamilton. You would have no trouble going to the Copley-it's one of the easier flutes to play embouchure wise-even into the second octave. You can really concentrate on the music, instead of your embouchure, if that's what you would like.

The Hamilton is much more of a challenge for embouchure-and it wants to be pushed; as a session instrument, it excels. You can play it sweetly too, and quietly, but it's made for the sessions, in my limited opinion. If you want a challenge (it's not impossible to play, it just requires more work), the Hamilton will teach you all about embouchure.

I sold my Copley because the lined head in combination with the Blackwood seemed to me to be a more penetrating tone, and since I have sensitive hearing, it didn't agree with me. The quality of the tone was very nice, and most people it won't bother. Other flutes have fully lined heads, and not much mention of it bothering anyone besides me and one other board member that I remember.

The Hammy can be pushed to honk, and can be loud, but doesn't seem as hard edged as the Copley. Of course, now Copley makes the unlined head flutes if you want to go that way. But, they don't have a tuning slide then. I don't think he makes a partially lined head.

So, it depends what you want-an easy player, or a challenge, and short wait with a Copley or a little longer with the Hammy. Both are very nice flutes.

And just to be clear, the Hammy is a half-lined head.

Kevin Krell

I haven't tried eighter Hammy or Copley, but if I remember correctly, the Copley is not a Pratten copy. It has a Prattenesque bore, but quite small tone-holes. The Hammy should be more of a Pratten flute with Pratten bore and huge tone-holes. This would suggest that the Hammy will be much harder to fill than the Copley.
The lined head of the Copley would probably give it a more piercing tone quality while the smaller holes would limit it's volume. The Hammy would probably be louder and with more bark, but a rounder and deeper tone.

Please observe that all I said is in theory. I haven't played any of these. But it seems to agree with what people say about them, so I decided to post my theory anyway.

Cheers

I wouldn't worry about the embrochure. You'll figure it out with practice. I was worried about that with the Seery I bought (my first flute, I'm a beginner). I bought it anyway and although it is challenging (isn't every flute?), I hasn't been brutal.

Hi Steve,

I've owned all three. The Hammy is more of a stretch and does require a more developed embouchure and/or more air.

Both are great flutes.

Doc

Hello Steve,
You have a great problem here, having to decide between two fantastic flutes. If only all of our problems could be so bad,,,sigh!!. I have both the Copley and the Hamilton and indeed, all the comments here so far are spot on. The Copley would most likely make for an easier transition from what you are playing now, within a week of having one you would be progressing by leaps and bounds and crowds will be gathering round to hear you play! And hear you they will as this flute will cut through a full session. The Hamilton, after your first week you will be thinking,,,hummm, this is interesting, let me try this embouchure, and this tecnique, etc, etc. In three months though, watch out world, cause all will hear the bark and bite of a true session instrument. So, in the end,,,go for it, either way you are gonna score. Best. D.

Hey SteveB,

David Copley flutes are based upon those of William Henry Hawkes. I feel that Copley’s flutes offer a broader range of tonal color than the Prattenesque flutes I have tried.

Copley will make your choice of heads: Fully Lined with tuning slide, Partially Lined with tuning slide or All-Wood without a tuning slide.

Greenspiderweb wrote:

I sold my Copley because the lined head in combination with the Blackwood seemed to me to be a more penetrating tone...

That’s funny, because penetrating is the exact word my wife used to describe my Copley with a lined head. She said it would penetrate anything, walls, floors, doors, there was no escaping it in the house, the sound went everywhere. She much prefers the sound of my Copley with the unlined head.

My wife’s favorite flute to listen to is my Burns Rudall. After I just got the flute I went down to the basement to play. When I was done I asked her if she liked my new flute? Her reply was “OH YES,... I couldn’t hear it at all!”

Right, Dave C will make a partly lined headjoint with a
tuning slide.

Right, also that the Copley will be easier to play. Lots
of people have posted here that the Hammy is
challenging, though not impossibly so.

I've never played a Hamilton, however a
Pratten won't require a huge amount of air, once you
get your embouchure together. And the round hole
on the Tipple sure does help develop an embouchure.
Maybe more important is whether you have smaller
hands. The Copley is a pretty easy handling flute.

Sillydill wrote:Hey SteveB,

David Copley flutes are based upon those of William Henry Hawkes. I feel that Copley’s flutes offer a broader range of tonal color than the Prattenesque flutes I have tried.

Copley will make your choice of heads: Fully Lined with tuning slide, Partially Lined with tuning slide or All-Wood without a tuning slide.

Greenspiderweb wrote:

I sold my Copley because the lined head in combination with the Blackwood seemed to me to be a more penetrating tone...

That’s funny, because penetrating is the exact word my wife used to describe my Copley with a lined head. She said it would penetrate anything, walls, floors, doors, there was no escaping it in the house, the sound went everywhere. She much prefers the sound of my Copley with the unlined head.

My wife’s favorite flute to listen to is my Burns Rudall. After I just got the flute I went down to the basement to play. When I was done I asked her if she liked my new flute? Her reply was “OH YES,... I couldn’t hear it at all!”

That's good to know, that Copley's are available in unlined, partially or fully lined heads. I wish sometimes I had kept the Copley and asked Dave to make a partially or unlined head-but I didn't think if it at the time to ask him!

Oh, and Jordan, your wife really does have discriminating taste in flutes, see?!!! Very similar to my wife's!

PS Don't know why the above came out in large print?

greenspiderweb wrote:PS Don't know why the above came out in large print?

just cause the end bold ended up after the end quote and the software lost it

Having owned both, my experience is that the only difference in playability between the Copley and Hammy is in finger mechanics. The Hammy spread is greater and the holes are MUCH bigger. So the stretch is bigger and it's harder to seal the holes.

I find the embouchures about comparable.

Of course, the Hammy sound is unique. There's just a certain something in a Hammy that I've never been able to find in another flute. Both the Hammy and the Copley can be played purely and sweetly in the upper octave, but in the lower, it's much easier to get that sound out of the Copley. They can both growl, but that's a lot easier in the Hammy.

So if embouchure was your primary concern, I think you should change your focus to other aspects of playing and/or sound.

i have a Hammy, and really love that flute.
the embouchure is oval, and really needs you to be on, if you get sloppy, the tone quality really drops. many other makers make a more squarish embouchure, which makes for an easier flute to play consistently, i think that gives a more penetrating edgy tone as well, the Hammy has this dark deep old flute ton to it, that i miss on some of my other flutes.
eilam.