Selling from U.S. to Canada

Aerowhip · Post by **Aerowhip** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:18 pm

Is there anything special I need to know if I were selling, say, a musical instrument (used) to a private buyer in Canada?

>Customs/Duty?
>Best shipping/insurance method?
>Best funds transfer technique?

With a good running start I could almost drop-kick it across the border from here - would it make any difference if I drove to Canada and shipped it within the country?

thanks for your help!

Linder

pmcallis · Post by **pmcallis** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:45 pm

Linder,
Ship it from Canada if you are close. This saves custom's duties, taxes, hassle and time. Send it by USPS from the U.S. not by courrier services that charge incredible brokerage fees or by Canada Post within Canada. Get payment using PayPal or an international bank draft made out to you in US $.
hope this helps,
Paul

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:08 pm

Seconding on the call about the post office. I've been thoroughly ripped off by UPS for a non-negotiable $50 'brokerage fee' that wasn't disclosed until the driver was at my door holding my goods hostage.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:20 am

You might find some useful info about this on a previous thread here:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ght=canada

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:48 am

I don't know what the limits are going to Canada, but many countries, if you value the item at $100 or more, customs will get involved. That also means that if you want to insure it for more than that, the recipient will have to pay customs. If it's an expensive piece, it probably is worth it to make the drive.

Another possible payment method for US/Canada transactions is a postal money order, which is often easier and always cheaper (in the US, anyway) than a bank draft. Paypal is certainly the most convenient if you have it, though.

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:19 am

Canada Customs has it in for musical instruments, especially flutes. The buyer will get nailed an additional 15% of the price you put on the Customs form. Definitely mail it from within Canada via Canada Post if you are trying to give the buyer a break.

djm

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:51 am

There's no duty on a used flute, but there are sales taxes the buyer will hae to pay on the purchase price.

There is a 7% federal sales tax and a provincial tax which varies between 0 and about 8%. Customs will often attempt to collect the former but not the latter.

If you mark the article as "gift" no taxes are due.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:02 am

s1m0n wrote:There is a 7% federal sales tax and a provincial tax which varies between 0 and about 8%. Customs will often attempt to collect the former but not the latter.

Maybe that's true elsewhere, but not in Québec: in the past three years I've brought three new instruments across the border (a flute, a guitar, and a set of pipes) and had to pay about 15% on each of them -- this was the 7% federal tax plus the Québec QST (which is calculated based on the sum of the price you paid for the item plus the federal tax, so you're paying a tax on a tax!).

Of course I could have saved a lot of money by not declaring them, but I'm a fairly frequent border crosser and often have these instruments with me, so didn't want to risk fines or confiscation later on. I keep my Customs receipts with each instrument in its case.

Craig Stuntz · Post by **Craig Stuntz** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:32 am

djm wrote:Canada Customs has it in for musical instruments, especially flutes. The buyer will get nailed an additional 15% of the price you put on the Customs form. Definitely mail it from within Canada via Canada Post if you are trying to give the buyer a break.

Be aware that crossing the border with an item to sell and not reporting it to Customs is breaking the law, and border services can seize your goods if they catch you. They'll ask you what the purpose of your stay in Canada is and if you have anything to declare, and this (commerce) is one of the things they're interested in. I'd suggest reading the Bringing goods into Canada information.

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:41 am

bradhurley wrote:
s1m0n wrote:There is a 7% federal sales tax and a provincial tax which varies between 0 and about 8%. Customs will often attempt to collect the former but not the latter.
Maybe that's true elsewhere, but not in Québec..

It might be a matter of crossing at the border vs mailing--Canada Post seems to collect GST (federal sales tax) on behalf of Customs but not the PST.

flutefry · Post by **flutefry** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:10 am

I agree with those who ay use USPS, as I've had recent experiences with both UPS and Fedex charging "brokerage" fees for ground packages (curiously by air, you can go to the airport and broker it yourself).

I've been told that each Canada Customs inspector has a list of things they are looking for in incoming parcels, and that some things are let go because the potential return isn't worth the paperwork given the pressure to process a certain number of packages per shift. It is worth specifying that the flute is used. It's also worth specifying the material "used wood flute" or "used plastic flute" creates the impression in some cases that the flute is a toy. When I send instruments for servicing across the line, I put "returned for repair" when shipping, and ask the maker to put the same when returning it, and I have never been charged duty. It's worth saying it's a gift. Naturally I am not counselling anyone to lie for the purpose of avoiding duty and taxes.

Hugh

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:21 pm

I am pretty sure that if it is a gift worth over $100 duty will be charged. I usually mark them as "returned maufactuers sample" no duty on that.

artsohio · Post by **artsohio** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:55 pm

Before choosing one the aformentioned methods of tax evasions, you might want to consider that lying about the contents of a package, whether by calling them gifts or manufacturer's samples, might nullify any insurance you bought for the shipment. You might be costing yourself a good amount by trying to save/cheat the postal service out of a few bucks.

Right now, my parents are at risk of losing a couple of hundred thousand dollars because of a "little fib that everyone does" that saved them about $100 a year. They got away with it for almost a decade, but now it has cost them their children's respect (which they can't understand, since it was such a tiny thing) and may cost them jail time or a large amount of money.

Long story short, signing to a lie on a federal document, even something as small as a customs form, might come back to haunt you in a big way if something goes wrong with the shipment. Is that worth the relatively small amount of money it will cost to do the right and legal thing?

flutefry · Post by **flutefry** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:59 pm

I think it is useful to keep in mind the difference between tax avoidance (legal) versus tax evasion (illegal).

If the object is a gift, you are entitled to say so. Gifts are taxable, but inspectors can use their discretion. In practise, items with a value under $50 are usually ignored whether they are a gift or not.

If the object is being returned, or returned for repair, you are entitled to say so.
If the object is a manufacturer's sample, you are entitled to say so.
If the object is a used wooden or plastic flute, you are entitled to say so.

Doing any of the above may save you from being charged tax that you needn't pay (tax avoidance), and is legal (if course the description is true).

What is illegal is misrepresenting what is in the package, or undervaluing what is in the package with the intent of evading taxes. As artsohio points out, getting caught can result in confiscation, fines, loss of insurance.

My personal experience is that telling the truth at all times is more likely to get you a break from the humans who interpret the law.

Hugh