How are the crossfingerings on an M&E?

ninjaaron · Post by **ninjaaron** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:56 pm

I'd like to get a keyed M&E in the next year or two, and I'm wondering thinking about getting only an Eb and F key. Of course, I might go full out and get them all, but I like the idea of less. I just want to know if you can get something resembling C, Bb, and Ab on an M&E. It doesn't have to be perfectly in tune, just passably.

This is all very tentative. I've got a long time to stew over it, so I just want to know if a two keyed M&E is a viable option for playing chromatic music.

mkchen · Post by **mkchen** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:12 pm

I have an older 5-key M&E. Cnat is easily cross-fingered with any of the usual combinations. My flute has a C key but I can't imagine any situation other than a trill where I would want to use it. In fact the C key is roughly where the trill keys on a clarinet would be located. G#/Ab on the M&E can be cross-fingered about as well as on any other flute I've tried (Sweetheart, Aquila, Burns, Tipple), which is to say that it's acceptable on a faster tune but I wouldn't want to hear it in an air. My flute has the short F key. I'd much rather have a long F and if I were to order a new 5-key I'd dispense with the C and go for the two Fs.

Ming

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:43 am

With crossfingering, C-natural and B-flat are the only chromatics I had hit in both octaves on either M&E. That's not unique to the M&E's, but it true for all my simple-system flutes (except for the Baroque flute).

G-sharp and F-natural in the 2nd octave had be half-holed pretty well, but both are very weak in the first octave. I've not had much luck cross-fingering either of these notes.

I've never been able to hit e-flat on a flute by cross-fingering, except when I'd get lucky and hit it just right on my Hamilton when it was keyless.

Note that there are doubtless more advanced players who can do much better than I without the keys. This post just represents my own experiences.

--James

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:00 am

I have no idea. I've played M&E for a few years but when I felt the need to get all the accidentals I ordered 5 keys. They're cheap.

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:16 am

I'd say other than cnatural, you would need keys if you really want to go all out chromatic. I've gotten to the point that I can half-hole an Fnatural passably on some tunes, but I never play those tunes in public.

ninjaaron · Post by **ninjaaron** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:03 pm

Henke wrote:I have no idea. I've played M&E for a few years but when I felt the need to get all the accidentals I ordered 5 keys. They're cheap.

If you live in a country where they pay you to go to college

Lucky socialists!

Whistlin'Dixie · Post by **Whistlin'Dixie** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:48 am

I don't know about now, but a few years ago when I earned my Biology degree in Georgia, college tuition at state universities was paid as long as a student maintained a B average. It was the Hope Grant, and funded by the State Lottery.

M

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:49 am

ninjaaron wrote:
Henke wrote:I have no idea. I've played M&E for a few years but when I felt the need to get all the accidentals I ordered 5 keys. They're cheap.
If you live in a country where they pay you to go to college

Lucky socialists!

Well, with a 32% income tax.
But I like it, not complaining

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:09 am

Henke wrote:
ninjaaron wrote:
Henke wrote:I have no idea. I've played M&E for a few years but when I felt the need to get all the accidentals I ordered 5 keys. They're cheap.
If you live in a country where they pay you to go to college

Lucky socialists!

Well, with a 32% income tax.
But I like it, not complaining

What other income-type taxes do you have? Seriously curious. Because between income tax, social security, medicare, and insurance payments, I'm pretty sure I'm not paying a whole lot less than that, and likely am paying more.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:07 am

Wanderer - I agree with you. We have taxes on top of taxes on top of taxes...it's remarkable how many hidden taxes we have. I'd rather it be taken up front than the system we currently have.

Mary - that was a great deal in Georgia. Doesn't (or would didn't be more appropriate) California have a similar deal if you go to certain state schools? Out here on the edge of the plains, you just have to pay - no freebies.

Eric

ninjaaron · Post by **ninjaaron** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:55 am

Whistlin'Dixie wrote:I don't know about now, but a few years ago when I earned my Biology degree in Georgia, college tuition at state universities was paid as long as a student maintained a B average. It was the Hope Grant, and funded by the State Lottery.

M

That is quite unusual I believe. I know it's not like that in Wisconsin.

But you must understand: In Henke's country, College is free for anyone from any country. If your a Swede the govenment PAYS YOU for going; like it was a job (well, a poorly paying job).

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:54 pm

Wanderer wrote:What other income-type taxes do you have? Seriously curious. Because between income tax, social security, medicare, and insurance payments, I'm pretty sure I'm not paying a whole lot less than that, and likely am paying more.

Yeah, that surprised me, too. I rather thought the Scandanavian countries
had something near 70% income tax...

Henke wrote:I've played M&E for a few years but when I felt the need to get all the accidentals I ordered 5 keys. They're cheap.

Yes, M&E keys are relatively cheap. According to <a href="http://irishflutestore.com/M&E.html">Doc Jones' M&E page</a>:

irishflutestore.com wrote: First key is $180, all keys after first are $60/key, e.g. 2 keys: $180+$60=$240.

So, you could get 3 keys on an M&E for about the same amount that most
makers I've seen charge for one key. (Casey Burns and Terry McGee, for
example, come in at about $300/key). I have no idea if the cost
affects the quality or materials, though, as I haven't played any of these
flutes.

I agree with ninjaaron, it's still not a drop in the bucket. Although, you
could always get the flute keyless and then decide what keys are
necessary, since they can be added later.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:35 pm

I have a 6-key M&E that is several years old now:

The keys are not glossy or glitzy, but they are strong, they have always worked well and dependably, and I have never had any problems with any of the keys or the pads.

Also the positioning of the long C and long F touches are about the most comfortable of any flute I've yet tried.

I think the keyed M&E represents a tremendous value.

--James

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Wanderer wrote:
Henke wrote:
ninjaaron wrote:If you live in a country where they pay you to go to college

Lucky socialists!

Well, with a 32% income tax.
But I like it, not complaining
What other income-type taxes do you have? Seriously curious. Because between income tax, social security, medicare, and insurance payments, I'm pretty sure I'm not paying a whole lot less than that, and likely am paying more.

Well, we have really high taxes for almost everything, your income, car, home, the food you buy, alcohol and everything. They are a lot higher than your's, we pay tax for everything we do, the richer you are, the more you pay. But then we have lot's of government aids and stuff.
The result is that it's hard to get very rich in Sweden (you can be rich but you lose a terrible amount of money to the government if you are), most of our very rich people who don't have lot's of interests in Sweden moves to Monaco or something similar. On the other hand, it's hard to be very poor here as well. It's depatable wether this is good or not. You could say that the well educated with good jobs spend a lot of money suporting the Collage drop-outs, which feels a bit strange and unfair. But it's difficult to judge. We don't have many of the problems associated with extreme poverty that you have in some parts of your nation.

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:52 pm

Jayhawk wrote: Mary - that was a great deal in Georgia. Doesn't (or would didn't be more appropriate) California have a similar deal if you go to certain state schools? Out here on the edge of the plains, you just have to pay - no freebies.

Eric

At one time, a long time back, University of California tuition was either free or effectively so.

Those times are long past.

Though the University of California and the California State University systems are pretty reasonable compared to similar quality private schools, they are far from free - tuition is around 6K per year, then there's living expenses, books, etc - figure close to 20K/year for a student living in the dorms and using their meal plan.

(The distinction between UC and CSU for undergrads is fairly small - the UC schools are research institutions that offer Doctorates, while the CSU schools top out at the Master's level. The UC's require higher GPA and test scores to get in, but a *lot* of UC-eligible students go to CSU schools instead. But for a lot of parents it's a prestige thing, and High Schools like to brag if they get a higher-than-usual percentage of their graduates into a UC school.)

Since my older daughter's a UC freshman this year, I'm pretty current on the costs. Even with her scholarships (and yes, she *does* need to maintain a B average), we're handling the majority of her expenses.

The California Community College system is cheaper - I think tuition there is less than half that of the UC/CSU systems - but those only cover the first two years of college; if you want a bachelor's degree or higher you then need to transfer to a 4-year school.

But no, edumacation ain't cheap here in California.