I'm expecting a low D flute this
month but it's unlikely
that I will find a flute teacher
where I live. So I'm trying to
figure out the right form from
books sold at local music stores.
I play whistle a lot, including low
Ds--the part of flute technique
I'm having trouble figuring out is
left hand position. Where do you
put your left thumb (on a keyless
low D flute)? On what does the flute
rest? What's the best position if
you wish to play rolls with your left
hand? Any advice would be welcome.
left hand position
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RudallRose
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ErikT
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Hi Jim,
Here's how I hold mine. The main pressure point for holding the flute is the side of my pointer finger mid way between the tip of my thumb and pointer (on the pad of my palm). I counter balance this with pressure against my chin and resistance from my right hand (location varies - usually my pinky, but on some notes I shift this to my other fingers). My left hand thumb has very little pressure against it and is just resting against the flute (except in the picture where I was trying to take a picture and not drop it).
For my right hand, I typically use my finger pads, but sometimes play around with the pipers grip. Sometimes I use the pipers grip with my left hand as well, but I'm not fond of this position. I find that the pipers grip is antithetical to keyed flutes so try to play without using it much.
<img src="http://www.tullberg.com/hands1.jpg">
<img src="http://www.tullberg.com/hands2.jpg">
It's hard to take a picture of your own grip
This is by no means the 'proper' method but I find that it works well for me. You will probably find others that have different grips.
Peace,
Erik
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-10-14 08:15 ]</font>
Here's how I hold mine. The main pressure point for holding the flute is the side of my pointer finger mid way between the tip of my thumb and pointer (on the pad of my palm). I counter balance this with pressure against my chin and resistance from my right hand (location varies - usually my pinky, but on some notes I shift this to my other fingers). My left hand thumb has very little pressure against it and is just resting against the flute (except in the picture where I was trying to take a picture and not drop it).
For my right hand, I typically use my finger pads, but sometimes play around with the pipers grip. Sometimes I use the pipers grip with my left hand as well, but I'm not fond of this position. I find that the pipers grip is antithetical to keyed flutes so try to play without using it much.
<img src="http://www.tullberg.com/hands1.jpg">
<img src="http://www.tullberg.com/hands2.jpg">
It's hard to take a picture of your own grip
This is by no means the 'proper' method but I find that it works well for me. You will probably find others that have different grips.Peace,
Erik
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-10-14 08:15 ]</font>
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RudallRose
- Posts: 2405
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:00 pm
It appears to be a ceramic flute. Pretty.
Keep in mind, though, that while the photo shows a decent hand position, the holes on this flute appear off-set, unlike most flutes out there whose holes are linear, so the extension of the LH2&3 fingers will be more so than shown.
But the idea of resting the flute onto the LH1 finger joint at the palm is correct. The thumb can either be below the space between LH1&2 (which is how I do it) or, as some players such as Kevin Crawford do, extend up along the flute body.
You'll find that where you place that thumb will inevitably affect the speed and dexterity of LH3 (particularly for ornaments), so try different places for your best spot.
_________________
David Migoya
Fyfer Restorations
http://www.fyfer-restorations.com
"Bringing Yesterday's Flutes to Today's Players"
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David Migoya on 2001-10-14 14:24 ]</font>
Keep in mind, though, that while the photo shows a decent hand position, the holes on this flute appear off-set, unlike most flutes out there whose holes are linear, so the extension of the LH2&3 fingers will be more so than shown.
But the idea of resting the flute onto the LH1 finger joint at the palm is correct. The thumb can either be below the space between LH1&2 (which is how I do it) or, as some players such as Kevin Crawford do, extend up along the flute body.
You'll find that where you place that thumb will inevitably affect the speed and dexterity of LH3 (particularly for ornaments), so try different places for your best spot.
_________________
David Migoya
Fyfer Restorations
http://www.fyfer-restorations.com
"Bringing Yesterday's Flutes to Today's Players"
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David Migoya on 2001-10-14 14:24 ]</font>
Geez guys, thanks so much! I think
I do get the idea from the photos and
the descriptions. It's a stable position,
I can see.
If I may ask a follow up question:
I half hole the C natural. Is that
doable if the left hand is positioned
as in the photos? If not, I suppose
one must cross finger.
Is it a viable option to simply
use piper's grip on both hands--
reservations about keyed flutes aside,
for now? That's how I finger low D
whistles. This seems much less stable on
the flute.
And the thumb would appear to go
much to the left of the other left-hand
fingers. Is it terribly non-standard?
Thanks again, Jim
I do get the idea from the photos and
the descriptions. It's a stable position,
I can see.
If I may ask a follow up question:
I half hole the C natural. Is that
doable if the left hand is positioned
as in the photos? If not, I suppose
one must cross finger.
Is it a viable option to simply
use piper's grip on both hands--
reservations about keyed flutes aside,
for now? That's how I finger low D
whistles. This seems much less stable on
the flute.
And the thumb would appear to go
much to the left of the other left-hand
fingers. Is it terribly non-standard?
Thanks again, Jim
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ErikT
- Posts: 1590
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
- Contact:
Hola.
Jomac, it is a ceramic flute (made by a name brand that you would probably recognize, though for some reason I can't remember it right now). It's a nice display model - I bought it because it's pretty. I don't actually play anything on it for the following reasons:
1. It has very poor intonation.
2. As David mentioned, the holes are offset, which is not a feature that I like.
3. It is heavy.
I just grabbed the closest flute for the picture.
Jim,
I will sometimes half-hole Cnat and this grip doesn't preclude that. I actually end up pivoting the finger across the hole. As for the pipers grip on both hands, I think that you'll find yourself needing to support the flute more with your thumbs. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think that it tenses up your hands and tension reduces speed (again, my hand look tense in the picture because it is holding the flute all by itself). I'm also of the mind that it makes sense to learn the way that might be most helpful in the future. That way you don't have to unlearn anything.
Peace,
Erik
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-10-14 16:48 ]</font>
Jomac, it is a ceramic flute (made by a name brand that you would probably recognize, though for some reason I can't remember it right now). It's a nice display model - I bought it because it's pretty. I don't actually play anything on it for the following reasons:
1. It has very poor intonation.
2. As David mentioned, the holes are offset, which is not a feature that I like.
3. It is heavy.
I just grabbed the closest flute for the picture.
Jim,
I will sometimes half-hole Cnat and this grip doesn't preclude that. I actually end up pivoting the finger across the hole. As for the pipers grip on both hands, I think that you'll find yourself needing to support the flute more with your thumbs. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think that it tenses up your hands and tension reduces speed (again, my hand look tense in the picture because it is holding the flute all by itself). I'm also of the mind that it makes sense to learn the way that might be most helpful in the future. That way you don't have to unlearn anything.
Peace,
Erik
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-10-14 16:48 ]</font>
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RudallRose
- Posts: 2405
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:00 pm
Piper's grip will work on the flute as long as your tone is strong and the holes are properly covered. There's really no exact way to hold the flute as we all see from various players. Some have longer fingers than others and use piper style, while others like myself have shorter fingers and use more traditional methods of hand position. It's what is comfortable and what produces the cleanest and consistent sound. It's the same with angle of the flute. Some will angle it way downward at the end while others are very perpendicular and upright. I prefer a slight downward angle to help drainage.
regarding the C-nat, every flute is different in this regard and you have to try the various cross fingerings (and master them!) to see which one works on the flute you have. The half-hole is a good option, but only as a passing note for certain passages. I wouldn't recommend it for all the time as it's not easily facilitated with some passages and actually makes it more difficult to do.
So, using tuner after you've warmed up, try the different cross fingerings to see which one is more in tune. Each flute reacts differently to each cross, so you'llneed to see which one is best.
Here are the most prevalent:
O X O X X X (great for doing C-D moves, very easy)
O X O O O O (I find this one usually too sharp for most instruments)
O X X O O O (classic for whistle)
O X X X O O (best for C'' on many, including whistles)
and for the keyed empressarios, try this one:
X X X X X X x x (where the little "x" is the lower two keys on the foot.....great for a passing tone at C'' or even C''')
and a fun one: rolling the C-nat, as McCullough does it on whistle and it works nicely on flute if done quickly:
O X X O O X (tonic C)
X X X O O X (the "cut")
O X X O O X (to the tonic)
O X X X X X (the "tap")
O X X O O X (to the tonic)
regarding the C-nat, every flute is different in this regard and you have to try the various cross fingerings (and master them!) to see which one works on the flute you have. The half-hole is a good option, but only as a passing note for certain passages. I wouldn't recommend it for all the time as it's not easily facilitated with some passages and actually makes it more difficult to do.
So, using tuner after you've warmed up, try the different cross fingerings to see which one is more in tune. Each flute reacts differently to each cross, so you'llneed to see which one is best.
Here are the most prevalent:
O X O X X X (great for doing C-D moves, very easy)
O X O O O O (I find this one usually too sharp for most instruments)
O X X O O O (classic for whistle)
O X X X O O (best for C'' on many, including whistles)
and for the keyed empressarios, try this one:
X X X X X X x x (where the little "x" is the lower two keys on the foot.....great for a passing tone at C'' or even C''')
and a fun one: rolling the C-nat, as McCullough does it on whistle and it works nicely on flute if done quickly:
O X X O O X (tonic C)
X X X O O X (the "cut")
O X X O O X (to the tonic)
O X X X X X (the "tap")
O X X O O X (to the tonic)
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bob baksi
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As a now surfacing lurker, I want to thank you all on this thread for an intelligent and useful discussion. After going WHOA on whistles for a year, I just received a new Copley flute a few weeks ago, and hope to get it out of the box this weekend and give it a go. This discussion has been a great advance helper. David Migoya, you are to be commended as one of those who, although having a commercial background interest, has posted enormously numerous helpful responses. You seem to me to be a model for commercial forum members.
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RudallRose
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