Embouchure size and tuning

[Yp60fr]

I have a flute that has a pretty large embouchure (13.5 x 12.5 mm) and which is very air demanding (far too much fro me). The flute was made by Peter Merbeth in the late 90's.

I have tried to get a new head from another flute maker but the result was pretty disappointing. Due to a different geometry, I had to extend the tuning slide but it was impossible to get the flute in tune even with itself.

My question is whether the size of the embouchure influences the tuning of the flute and does it worth trying to get a new head for this flute.

By the way, the flute is 6 keyed, has a nice tone and is pretty powerful, let me know if you are interested.

[Terry McGee]

Woah, that is big, Yp60fr. Normally we expect more like 12 x 10.5mm, and smaller. So you'll excuse me when I say I don't think I have had experience with such a size.

I wouldn't have expected a smaller embouchure to make such a difference to tuning (other than a general flattening which might be offset by pushing the slide more closed.

Is it possible that the head is of a different bore than the usual 19mm (3/4") that we are familiar with. A different bore diameter can be expected to bring changes to tuning. Do you have any way of measuring the bore diameter of the original head? Calipers would be nice, but even if you can estimate from a good rule?

[Ben Shaffer]

Ive got a Music Morneaux./ Sweetheart Rosewood Flute with an embouchure that is 13 by 11 mm. I'd say the size of the embouchure gives me very good volume. I know "size matters" as when I bought the Flute from the Irish Flute Store the embouchure was smaller. I then sent it to Jos who had made the Flute and he increased the size of the embouchure and that dramatically increased the Volume. The Flute is fairly easy to play, so maybe bore size effects the ease or difficulty of playing any given Flute.
I can't say the size made a difference in tuning. The embouchure is undercut with a leeward Cutaway and I'm not sure if that has any effect on tuning, but it might .
I'm thinking finger hole size and location may be a factor in tuning with the offending Flute rather than embouchure size... just guessing

[Tunborough]

I have tried to get a new head from another flute maker but the result was pretty disappointing. Due to a different geometry, I had to extend the tuning slide but it was impossible to get the flute in tune even with itself.

That is unexpected. As Terry says, simply shrinking the embouchure hole would be expected to flatten the flute, by about 10 - 20 cents depending on the new size, roughly the same across the full two octaves. This would require closing the slide, not extending it. There must be something else about the geometry of the new head that doesn't match the original.

[Yp60fr]

Woah, that is big, Yp60fr. Normally we expect more like 12 x 10.5mm, and smaller. So you'll excuse me when I say I don't think I have had experience with such a size.

I wouldn't have expected a smaller embouchure to make such a difference to tuning (other than a general flattening which might be offset by pushing the slide more closed.

Is it possible that the head is of a different bore than the usual 19mm (3/4") that we are familiar with. A different bore diameter can be expected to bring changes to tuning. Do you have any way of measuring the bore diameter of the original head? Calipers would be nice, but even if you can estimate from a good rule?

Thank you for your feedback. I've checked the bore and it is 19 mm wide. More, I can fit a François Baubet head joint (Delrin) on the Merbeth barrel and I have run through additional tests. If I extend the tuning slide to its maximum, the result is not that bad. Perhaps have I done my previous test with the belief that nothing good could happen. I may have been fooled by a previous test I did with another head joint. When trying to tune the flute then, I was not able to get the bottom D. I now suspect some leakage

My conclusion is that it make sense to have a new head joint made for this flute, that's what I wanted to know.

Thanks everybody.

[Terry McGee]

Great, Yp60fr.

And yes, good to suspect and investigate leakage. Any leak anywhere will decimate the low notes. The old "suck test" should help here. Pull the instrument apart and test each section separately. Cover all the holes and suck on one end - you should be able to "pull a good vacuum", if not, look for cracks. Then test again with the sections in pairs, in case a crack or leak only shows up with the tenons swelling the sockets. Oh, and it being a keyed flute, look closely to the pads as the source of leakage. Again the suck test should help, but follow up with a blow test to prove that the springs are holding the pads down well enough.

And you don't necessarily have to get a new head made (although you might choose to). You could have the old embouchure bored out and plugged, and a new embouchure hole cut into it. If it's blackwood, the joint around the plug shouldn't be all that noticeable. Alternatively, you could have a plug of different material (artificial ivory?).

[Yp60fr]

And you don't necessarily have to get a new head made (although you might choose to). You could have the old embouchure bored out and plugged, and a new embouchure hole cut into it. If it's blackwood, the joint around the plug shouldn't be all that noticeable. Alternatively, you could have a plug of different material (artificial ivory?).

Thank you Terry, I will perform a complete check for any leakage on this flute.

I like the idea of reworking the old embouchure, As far as I can understand, this is the technique called "bushing" by Hammy Hamilton in his blog (http://hammy-flutemaker.blogspot.com/20 ... chure.html.
Unfortunately, it might not be easy to find a flute make able to do the job.

[Terry McGee]

Yes, bushing is indeed a good term for it. And I have seen a few old flutes that have been thus refurbished. And had to do a couple, typically where someone (back when?) has attempted to recut the embouchure hole well beyond their level of craftmanship! With a dull pocket knife, by the look of it!

Clearly any flute maker must be capable of drilling and cutting an embouchure hole, so that's not the issue (other than hopefully being able to find a maker whose embouchure holes fit your face!) So the only other challenge is cutting a hole bigger than the existing embouchure hole to accommodate a plug of fresh wood (or "ivory", silver or whatever). In days gone by, you couldn't rely on glues to hold such a plug in place, which is why some of those old plugs were threaded on the outside. (We're going to need a plumber!) But modern glues seem to be able to manage.

If your preferred maker hasn't had any experience bushing, invite them to contact me, and we can talk over approaches.