CP: Bamboo flutes at last!

[Geoffrey Ellis]

I know a lot of folks on this forum have an interest in bamboo flutes. A couple of years ago I started developing bamboo versions of the different flutes that I make after a very inspiring chat with Pat Olwell, where he shared some of his wisdom and experiences in working with bamboo (the fun and the frustration). Since then I've been practicing the craft until I felt I was ready to go public. So for those of you who are interested, you can check out my new stuff at:

https://www.ellisflutes.com/world-flutes/bamboo

[GreenWood]

Those look good, much an own approach, and I would think they play well also. Making each instrument individually is very rewarding . So far I have never made an attempted exact replica of a previous instrument, though I suppose that would bring its rewards also. The lip plate is a good idea, I had not seen those on bamboo flutes, probably from lack of study of them. Looking up bamboo density and it is relatively light but with good hardness, I could not find similar details for Arundo Donax but will keep looking . I saw Barna Gabos made a Pratten bamboo flute, it still had the sound of bamboo somehow (not that that is good or not etc.) . I might try to make an Arundo flute based on my reediest wide bore wood flute, to see if I can bring that sound out with cane.


You mention somewhere that recordings of each flute would not be realistic. This I think is true and from different points of view. A good player might make a difficult flute sound good, and then also the expectations of a buyer might lead to dissapointment or frustration, instead of appreciating the learning of the instrument and so also discovering their own way to play. Most of all though recordings just don't transfer the feeling of actually playing any instrument, and that is very different even for example between flutes that sound the same. I think that is one reason I don't like recording, because somehow somewhere it seems a bit of an illusion, useful but an illusion. Am I playing as I would or am I playing for the machine in front of me ? Equally, when you try to relate to a music, with live music it takes you straight to the player and that is real, but for a recording ... not so much. I think "virtual" most things actually mess people up somehow, much better to trek off to the park or a stand of bamboo than be sat in front of a screen etc.

At a local market recently there was an accordion player, more an accompaniment than busking and the whole market seemed to be to his music. Seated, he had his head tilted away to one side, eyes closed deep in concentration...and somewhat improperly (i.e. without thinking of if he would mind) I decided to film the scene. From about ten meters off and behind him slightly, well out of view, just as I lift the phone he sits up and looks straight ahead then turns and stares straight at me with a frown going on scowl, figuring me out, then rolls his eyes in an as in "typical" expression, and turns forward again. Musicians tend towards being sensitive, and that is all real world, as is playing music, as opposed to wherever much else of what we are presented takes us.


For drying wood a venturi vacuum might avoid having to use dry ice. Some are not expensive, some reach very low pressure, I know of them from ways to achieve composite resin saturation . They are relatively simple to understand and robust.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

I completely agree with what you say about sound samples. I like to provide some for certain types of flutes so that customers can distinguish the pitch or the scale it plays. But as I say, with a flute recording you are learning more about the player than the flute. Microphones cannot communicate the experience of playing the flute. And by the time that recording is listened to (often through very inferior computer speakers), it is of limited value.

My own Patrick Olwell bamboo flute has a lip plate, and I’ve known of another maker who used them (Romy Benton), though he no longer makes flutes, which is a pity. His stuff was beautiful. They are useful if your bamboo walls are not quite thick enough to give a good chimney depth.

I read a bit about Venturi vacuum systems, and they seem to have a lot of cons, even if they have some advantages. They might eliminate the need for a moisture trap, but they also require a compressor that is going to need to be on the larger size. This will be noisy, require more maintenance and use way more energy (one site claimed that they require 8 times more energy to run than a mechanical pump). I have an electric vacuum pump that is relatively quiet—considerably more quiet compared to a compressor. But they (Venturi systems) are interesting—I had never heard of them before. But for providing a sustained vacuum on a chamber for 48 hours they may not be ideal. I did a lot of research on vacuum chambers and pumps when I was setting up my system, and it seems significant that none of the vendors who provide such equipment use the Venturi system.

[GreenWood]

Your kiln setup sounds very tailored and I would not suggest changing it, my thoughts were on simplifying for anyone else who might be tempted to make one. The only thing I have read against kiln drying is that it changes the wood structure slightly as compared to seasoning, but I don't think the difference was very quantifiable. Well you know how people prefer one over another for whatever reason, but wichever way a low temperature vacuum dried wood vs anything besides fully seasoned is going to win I think.

So I had a browse, first off is

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-I9DygHrLCo


And here he uses a duo seal welch pump directly. Notice the method of allowing tank sides to condense moisture which is fed into a separate holding tank. Will return to that in a way below.

Good talk on the topic

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php ... acuum-Kiln

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=10425.0


And someone mentions they have been using venturi successfully.

Thinking back to studies on solar powered air conditioning and similar (e.g. amonia fridges.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icyball ) , I think it would be possible to have two joined containers, one with wood heated slightly and the other sat in water (cooled) . Then prime them to low atm so warm (wood) boils and cold not (hence condenses) and you would have a flow of vapour to cold without need for pumping. This is not like dessicant though, because it takes place in "vacuum" , i.e. the water vapour becomes the atm which is removed as condensate, creating new low pressure. Possibly any volatiles would not condense, and so the system might need re-priming occasionally. In the video there it took three days. Even if the method I describe took two weeks it would still be fast, considering it could just be left without pump going except to re-prime it every few days maybe. If the heat difference could be just via solar even better. Might try to make a scale model of that sometime, to see if it would work.

[veloed]

Hi Geoffrey,
I for one am looking forward to purchasing one or more of your bamboo flutes, as soon as my funds allow!
I had really good luck about a year ago, to find via, ebay, reverb, and Chiff ads, a selection of Bamboo flutes from various makers,
from high d through low C, and I must say I very much enjoyed my journey through playing on them all. I eventually sent them all to Blayne
at the Irish Flute store to rehome, and am now ready to try on another batch. As time goes on, and my playing ability increases, I find I enjoy
them more, like any instrument. Best Wishes from rainy Lakebay Washington USA Ed Gilkison