Lizzo and the Laurent

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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by PB+J »

My point is that the flute was presented as if it was some sort of revered object, James Madison's beloved flute, but odds are fairly good that Madison barely knew it existed. There are lots of reason for the ridiculous performative outrage about it, but the excuse being given--historical reverence--is actually not at all credible. It's interesting as an example of the history of the flute, but the connection to "the founding fathers" is flimsy at best.

I've heard a few interviews with Lizzo and she's smart and funny and talented.

She's a good flute player and in one of the clips she's playing a clear flute, maybe not a laurent, and she say "it won't let me do that" and she heads into the high register

Just imagine the outrage when they see Thundercat playing William Howard Taft's Sousaphone.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Nanohedron »

PB+J wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:44 pm ... the flute was presented as if it was some sort of revered object ...
It was, wasn't it. One reiterates what should be obvious to all: that mindful handling is part of a caretaker's job, especially when the object is not only of historic record, but breakable on top of it, and you're in a slow-burning terror over it leaving your control - but I agree that for the stage performance, the Sublime Presentation Of The Laurent Unto Lizzo seemed rather over-ceremonious. I suspect it was supposed to be a tad tongue-in-cheek, but that air was thin, and personally I was waiting impatiently for the dog-and-pony show to be done with, already. And all I got for that bit of theater was a couple of notes. As a (former) fluteplayer I was incensed, and as a consumer of entertainment, I felt I'd been had.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Terry McGee »

At least they've upped security since I was first there in 1988. I was actually visiting the LoC sound archive, as Head of Sound Preservation at our then very new National Film and Sound Archive, and happened to mention a personal interest in flutes. They organised a short-notice visit to the Dayton Miller collection. So short-notice that the curator at the time had a luncheon appointment soon after I got there. Having seen the depth of my interest, he invited me to stay on, but asked nicely if I'd shut the door after I left. So I did. Get thee behind me, Temptation....

On a later visit, the (new) curator mentioned that the collection is in a tricky place, inside the LoC, but outside of the public areas. So you can see why they jumped at the chance for some good free publicity.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by stringbed »

The Dayton C. Miller Collection hosted a demonstration of several of their instruments at a 1985 meeting of CIMCIM — the International Council of Museum's committee for musical instrument museums and collections. This was at a time when curatorial attitudes and policies about the regulation of performance usage were quite controversial. But even liberally inclined attendees could be seen squirming during a demo of a Laurent flute. In decades-long hindsight I suppose it's fair to guess that the casual manner in the way it was handled reflected the DM perception of its value and significance relative to similar objects in their collection. The conference participants obviously did not all share that perspective. (The museum I was responsible for held three Laurent flutes and was more cautious with them.)
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Nanohedron »

stringbed wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:47 am But even liberally inclined attendees could be seen squirming during a demo of a Laurent flute.
I squirm. Seems to me that one solution might be to play it suspended over a safety air cushion.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Steve Bliven »

stringbed wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:47 am But even liberally inclined attendees could be seen squirming during a demo of a Laurent flute.
I
Nanohedron wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:26 pm squirm. Seems to me that one solution might be to play it suspended over a safety air cushion.
I kinda wonder just how fragile these things are. From the ones I've seen, they are pretty solid looking. Most likely none of the museums would like to test them however....

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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by PB+J »

I worked with a curator at the Smithsonian who used to argue none of the thing in the museum were either "original" or what they were presented as. Like the Wright flyer. The Wrights' wrecked it, then rebuilt it multiple times to improve it. The museum took it back to the day of the Kitty Hawk flight, but a better tribute to the Wrights would have been the modified version, which showed their restless curiosity. The America history museum has a beautiful green steam loco that looks nothing like it would have looked in use, when it would have been greasy and dirty. What exactly is being presented there?

The museum is always inciting various desires--to pick the thing up, to play it, to sit in it and go Vroom vroom, to climb into the stem engine cab and lean out the window. It's always telling people, in other words that history is something that has to be protected from them, because if they touch it they will screw it up. That's an odd and off-putting way to present history: it attaches a kind of fetishistic power to objects. Artie Shaw the swing bandleader was asked how he felt seeing his clarinet, which had made such beautiful music, being Smithsonian. He responded "I made the music, not the clarinet."

If the laurent flute fell and broke, well there are 19 others in the collection, and you could probably learn a lot from the pieces. I'm not in favor of letting it be broken, but there's an odd kind of idolatry around museum objects.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by stringbed »

One reason why this thing splashed is the value ascribed to the association between one specific Laurent flute and James Madison. The DM collection does not include 19 others with that attribute. The Laurent flute I saw demonstrated in 1985 was presented as the one in the collection in best playing condition. If it had smashed to bits, another would have been elevated to that status. But nobody would subsequently have been able to determine if there was a difference between the two that might be relevant to our understanding of the properties of glass flutes and Laurent's practice.

The noticeable discomfit of some attendees had nothing to do with any of that. The flute had not been well prepared for the demonstration. The performer felt that the headjoint was too loose and dealt with it by tucking the instrument under an armpit, separating the headjoint, and holding it in one hand while smearing saliva onto the ill-fitting tenon. I doubt that many owners of flutes produced by currently active makers (and therefore relatively easily replaceable) would unflinchingly let this be done with one of their instruments — to say nothing of a proudly acquired 19th-century one.

I’m not sure if the LoC video here has already been noted in this thread but in it, Lizzo herself wonders if the lipstick she’s wearing is appropriate to the activity she is being given free rein to conduct. It may not have been a factor with the silver flute she began with. However, when proceeding to a wooden recorder from 1585 it becomes difficult to grasp the applied degree of curatorial caution.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Nanohedron »

stringbed wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:41 am The noticeable discomfit of some attendees had nothing to do with any of that. The flute had not been well prepared for the demonstration. The performer felt that the headjoint was too loose and dealt with it by tucking the instrument under an armpit, separating the headjoint, and holding it in one hand while smearing saliva onto the ill-fitting tenon.
That explains the extremely perfunctory stage performance: Lizzo gets a wobbly headjoint but, somehow, the show must go on, even if it's with a whimper. I'm still playing catch-up here, so can anyone tell me which performance came first: The stage, or the longer more satisfying one at the LoC? Because it seems to me that in the LoC clip, the flute must have been in good fettle, because Lizzo seemed free of any cares when playing it. Not so on the stage. I'm trying to square these differences away.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by bigsciota »

Looking at the videos more closely, I don't think the videos of her playing significant passages are of her specifically on the Madison Laurent. This makes sense in a way, because AFAIK she plays Boehm flute, and unless she's also into HIP (maybe a CPE Bach album called "HIP Hop" in the works?) or trad she's unlikely to be that proficient that quickly on a simple system flute. The one I linked I believe that she's playing a Boehm-style plexiglass flute, also historic in its own way but not the same as the Laurent, even though it looks similar at a glance.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by GreenWood »

I'm caught between "good grief" and "more powa to her, only in America".

I wonder what Casey Burns thought of it all, given he has a project for glass flutes. Laurent was from a farming family, then clockmaker (including decimalised under Napoleon, which got scrapped)... if you read Catalan then


https://www.tdx.cat/bitstream/handle/10 ... gc1de3.pdf


gives details, or in French below has some history, which has a video of the above author in Catalan, including playing

https://rp-archivesmusiquefacteurs.blog ... loger.html


If there is a true historical link to all this, it must be that Laurent grew up during the French revolution, which occured just after the US gained independence, so it is a republican representation. The french abolished mainland slavery much earlier under monarchy, but their colonial slavery abroad was not abolished until much later, even as a republic. People read what they do into it all, so why not something kinder, like the flute was gifted to Madison as an example of what is possible from a mainland republic that has no slavery ? Who is to say what true intent existed. In that case the performance mentioned would be nicely fitting.
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